Concrete Encased Electrodes

[electricmanscott]

I'm with Mr. Carroll, except we ask for the 20' of copper in the footing on all new jobs. We do a lot of post tension slabs here.

What is the reply when you ask for this?

 

[jxofaltrds]

Let me spin this a bit further;

For the areas that do not require utilizing the CEE for a building addition would a new metal water line (that qualifies as a grounding electrode) added to the same addition be ignored also and not made part of the GES?

Pete

I say yes it should be used and would require a supplemental 250.53(D)(2).

Now I will spin it further.

You have an existing metal waterline properly installed and add a metal waterline to an out building (assuming 10'). 250.50 requires ALL electrodes present.

How do you isolate it so as not to have objectionable current running on the interior lines to this new electrode.

If you require it to be isolated what code would you cite?

This would also be a bonding jumper, correct?

 

[infinity]

If it's an addition w/o service upgrade or change, we don't require the connection in my town.

I agree. An addition with 20' of 1/2" or larger rebar in the footing would not be required to be used if the service is not touched. The service was code compliant when it was installed and can remain as is.

 

[cowboyjwc]

What is the reply when you ask for this?

It's actually in our ordinance and a lot of jurisdictions ask for it here so it's pretty common practice. Just to be clear, we don't get it on addidtions unless they are moving the service to the addition, but it is required on all new buildings.

 

[pete m.]

I say yes it should be used and would require a supplemental 250.53(D)(2).

Now I will spin it further.

You have an existing metal waterline properly installed and add a metal waterline to an out building (assuming 10'). 250.50 requires ALL electrodes present.

How do you isolate it so as not to have objectionable current running on the interior lines to this new electrode.

If you require it to be isolated what code would you cite?

This would also be a bonding jumper, correct?

I agree with you that all electrodes present need to be incorporated into the GES regardless of whether it is a new building or an addition to an existing.

Pete

 

[benaround]

I say yes it should be used and would require a supplemental 250.53(D)(2).

Now I will spin it further.

You have an existing metal waterline properly installed and add a metal waterline to an out building (assuming 10'). 250.50 requires ALL electrodes present.

How do you isolate it so as not to have objectionable current running on the interior lines to this new electrode.

If you require it to be isolated what code would you cite?

This would also be a bonding jumper, correct?

IMO, 250.52(A)(1) would not require it as a GE, as it is already part ( bonded ) of the

metal water piping ( continuous ) system.

 

[electricmanscott]

It's actually in our ordinance and a lot of jurisdictions ask for it here so it's pretty common practice. Just to be clear, we don't get it on addidtions unless they are moving the service to the addition, but it is required on all new buildings.

I was just busting your chops. I think it's probably a good requirement. I have never seen a house with rebar in the footing but I always try to get 20' of copper in there.

 

[electricmanscott]

I agree. An addition with 20' of 1/2" or larger rebar in the footing would not be required to be used if the service is not touched. The service was code compliant when it was installed and can remain as is.

What if the house had a well and as part of the new addition project the well was abandoned and a new copper water line was run into the house from the street?

 

[infinity]

What if the house had a well and as part of the new addition project the well was abandoned and a new copper water line was run into the house from the street?

If the interior water system were copper than it would already be required to be bonded. If the service is existing it's grandfathered and would not require the use of any additional electrode that may appear at a later date. Many of the older homes around here have services only connected to the water pipe without any supplementation. If the house undergoes an renovation you are not required to install two ground rods to bring the service up to code. The service if left unaltered can remain as is. Might not be that way elsewhere but that's the way it is around here.

 

[electricmanscott]

Rob, I tend to agree with what you are saying. Just wanted to throw out another scenario that relates to the OP.