concrete encased ground

[infinity]

There is no requirement to make something that does not meet the definition of a grounding electrode into something does.

In a nut shell that's it. If there's a vapor barrier it's not an electrode and not present so you can use something else if you so choose.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

In a nut shell that's it. If there's a vapor barrier it's not an electrode and not present so you can use something else if you so choose.

I agree. The code requires the use of all electrodes that are present. If the concrete does not have direct contact with the earth, there is no electrode present.

Of course, you still need a grounding electrode system for the building and if there are no electrodes present, you will have to provide one. One option would be to remove some of the vapor barrier, but that could result in a building code violation where the vapor barrier is required by the building codes.

 

[jxofaltrds]

He may have said a 20' section without a vapour barrier would make it usable as a CCE or meet the definition of a CCE. I doubt he said you are compelled the NEC to do it.

The SHALL only counts IF it is one. If it is one is clearly defined.

Either you are saying a section of the vapor barrier must be removed or you are not.

There is no requirement to make something that does not meet the definition of a grounding electrode into something does.

I am not saying remove it. I am saying not to install it.

250.50 Grounding Electrode System. All grounding electrodes
as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are
present at each building or structure served shall be bonded
together to form the grounding electrode system.

It is present. Separating it from the earth does not make it disappear.

"Where the words "?if available?" were used in previous editions of the Code in this section, they were to mean where there is an electrode that meets the criteria of any of the grounding electrodes specified in Section 250.52(A) (1) through (6), then it should be used in the grounding electrode system. Let?s face it, "if available? was not the best language to use in a mandatory requirement of the Code."

From:http://www.iaei.org/blogpost/890108...odes-Required?hhSearchTerms="concrete"&terms=

 

[jxofaltrds]

I agree. The code requires the use of all electrodes that are present. If the concrete does not have direct contact with the earth, there is no electrode present.

Of course, you still need a grounding electrode system for the building and if there are no electrodes present, you will have to provide one. One option would be to remove some of the vapor barrier, but that could result in a building code violation where the vapor barrier is required by the building codes.

Then the AHJ has to make a call as to it's installation (vapor barrier).

Careful Don quoting the building code will get your typing hands slapped. :angel:

 

[jxofaltrds]

I am not saying remove it. I am saying not to install it.

250.50 Grounding Electrode System. All grounding electrodes
as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are
present at each building or structure served shall be bonded
together to form the grounding electrode system.

It is present. Separating it from the earth does not make it disappear.

"Where the words "?if available?" were used in previous editions of the Code in this section, they were to mean where there is an electrode that meets the criteria of any of the grounding electrodes specified in Section 250.52(A) (1) through (6), then it should be used in the grounding electrode system. Let?s face it, "if available? was not the best language to use in a mandatory requirement of the Code."

From:http://www.iaei.org/blogpost/890108...odes-Required?hhSearchTerms="concrete"&terms=

I reverse my opinion:

"Let?s address a couple of other common questions since we?re into this topic fairly deep now anyway. Where a footing is separated from the earth by a plastic or other insulating (vapor) barrier, the concrete-encased electrode is not present (see photos 1 and 2). The Code defines grounding electrode as "a device that establishes an electrical connection to the earth.? The other challenge that will be encountered in the field is the expanded use of encapsulated or coated reinforcing bars in footings. Obviously, footings utilizing coated rebar would not be suitable for use as concrete-encased grounding electrodes."

 

[Wenty4]

concrete encased electrode

concrete encased electrode

don_resqcapt19 is right about the slab. It must be a part of the footing which is in constant contact with the ground in order to qualify as a CEE. I'm from NH and most of the concrete contractors install the 1/2" rebar in the footing and extend it up through the top of the foundation to be attach to with an acorn connector