Condensate pump above ceiling

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pismo

pismo

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I have a situation where the HVAC unit is above a suspended ceiling. There is a condensation pump with a cord and plug on it. Section 400.7 allows cord wiring, but 400.8 does not. The HVAC contractor says that the pump does not come without the cord. What are the options?
 
You can have a receptacle above ceiling but can't have a cord plugged into it permanently. It would be for temp power and maintenance.
You'll need to find a pump without a cord, or a way to install it somewhere else.
 
I agree with Tom. But I would like to add I don't think cutting the plug off the cord and hardwiring it meets the code either. (That's probably what the HVAC guy will suggest).

What is up with these condensate pumps anyway? Why do the manufacturers make them with cords when they know they are going to be used above the ceiling? I think it is actually pretty common to install these in violation of the code.

Steve
 
This seems like such an odd rule to me. Does anyone know why this rule is there. Can you not have a cord and plug in an attic???? Essentially the same perhaps worse with the ambient temp.
 
Its not a odd rule. Extension cords are not allowed in concealed space. Its fire issue. The rule was tightned up over 2 code cyles as there were still violations.
If we didn't have this rule then you would have luminaires wired with cords. Portable cords are subject to deterioation over time, the jacket will dry up and crack.
 
Based on the first sentence of 400.8 why would it not be allowed?
400.7(A)(8) allows that installation. Since it is 'specifically permitted' by 400.7, it is not covered by 400.8
 
tom baker said:
Its not a odd rule. Extension cords are not allowed in concealed space. Its fire issue. The rule was tightned up over 2 code cyles as there were still violations.
If we didn't have this rule then you would have luminaires wired with cords. Portable cords are subject to deterioation over time, the jacket will dry up and crack.
Click to expand...

We are not talking extension cords but a rubber cord on a condensate pump. I know they are essentially the same but we are not talking about wiring lights. Is a rubber cord allowed for a dishwasher??? I believe it is. It is concealed and could dry up from the heat of the motors in a closed up space. Again if an attic fan (roof fan) comes with a cord from the motor to the thermostat is that not legal. I have seen it. UL approved-- although I admit most of them are in flex.
 
barclayd said:
Based on the first sentence of 400.8 why would it not be allowed?
400.7(A)(8) allows that installation. Since it is 'specifically permitted' by 400.7, it is not covered by 400.8
Click to expand...

The first sentence of 400.8 says "Flexible cords and cables shall only be used for the following:" and then the permissible list follows. The NEC (Article 100)defines "Appliance" as follows:

"Utilization equipment, generally other than industrial, that is normally built in standardized sizes or types and is installed or connected as a unit to perform one or more functions such as clothes washing, air conditioning, food mixing, deep frying, and so forth."

I think they are referring to "appliances" as toasters, dryers, window mounted A/C units, etc.. not condensate pumps or other "industrial" type equipment.


pismo said:
I have a situation where the HVAC unit is above a suspended ceiling.
Click to expand...

IMO 400.8 (1) and (2) would prohibit this installation.

EDIT TO CORRECT: DOH! I meant 400.8(5) not (2)
 
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If one assumes that a fractional horsepower Little Giant pump could possibly be considered an appliance, then the first sentence of 400.8 (Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following ) would indicate that the installation is acceptable.
If you don't want to call it an appliance, call it utilization equipment.
It is an acceptable installation.
 
barclayd said:
If you don't want to call it an appliance, call it utilization equipment.
It is an acceptable installation.
Click to expand...

By definition of appliance in article 100 I don't think one can call it an appliance. You could , however, call it a utilization equipment (Article 100) but one could always argue 400.7 (6) Connection to utilization equipment to facilitate frequent interchange. Does a condensate pump need frequent interchange-- I don't think so. This is another one of those AHJ calls (IMO).
 
Dishwashers fall under 400.7(10)/422.16(B)(2)

The application you are discussing does not fall under any of the conditions mentioned in 400.7, but specifically does fall under 400.8(5).

The manufacturers are aware of this, as they do make the units discussed for hardwiring... we have seen these installed in our jurisdiction.
 
OK, so lets assume that installing this condensate pump with the factory installed cord and plug is in violation of the NEC. Now I'm sure the pump is UL listed as an assembly which includes the cord that is connected to it. So any modification to this pump that would make the installation "code compliant" will essentially void the UL listing of the pump.
 
I few minutes leafing through the United Refrigeration and Johnstone Supply catalogs (two national HVAC supply houses) yeilds a few hardwire type condensate pumps. Problem solved.

In the Johnstone catalog, they call the Beckett condensate pump CU551UL a "commercial condensate pump". In the United Refrigeration catalog, they have 11 models that are for direct wire.
 
racerdave3 said:
OK, so lets assume that installing this condensate pump with the factory installed cord and plug is in violation of the NEC. Now I'm sure the pump is UL listed as an assembly which includes the cord that is connected to it. So any modification to this pump that would make the installation "code compliant" will essentially void the UL listing of the pump.
Click to expand...


Yep, but the same pump could be installed in a mechanical room without modification.

I don't know why the manufacturers don't just make these with your choice, hardwire, or cord and plug connected.
 
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