Conductor sizing for ranges

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tallgirl

tallgirl

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Glendale, WI
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Controls Systems firmware engineer
Heh. Trick question.

Conductor fill for 1" PVC is 4 #4 THHN. When wouldn't 1" PVC be enough for a range (or W/H)?

I'm not looking "When someone has a huge range / oven / super-sized Jenn-Air that needs half a dozen 1/0 wires", I'm asking "Is it reasonable to expect 1" PVC is going to be sufficient for the range conductors for most people who don't have Giant Kitchens from Hell and aren't named Emeril Lagasse?"
 
I have always installed a 50 amp circuit for a free-standing range, and never had a problem. (That is the standard) So, yes, 1" pvc should be plenty unless you do get the super-duper upgrade. You can get 4 #6 thhn into 3/4" pvc, and would be enough for a range
 
Not to mention, the EGC for 60 amps or less only needs to be #10. For 100 amps or less, #8. So unless you just like to pay for extra copper, it won't be 4 conductors of the same size.

Mark
 
JohnJ0906 said:
I have always installed a 50 amp circuit for a free-standing range, and never had a problem. (That is the standard) So, yes, 1" pvc should be plenty unless you do get the super-duper upgrade. You can get 4 #6 thhn into 3/4" pvc, and would be enough for a range
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Thanks -- that's what I was hoping (that 50A would be enough).
 
DGrant041 said:
Hmmm. . .You're using conduit? Is that a new standard in Miss.?

Do they also require seal-off's and low point drains?

-Dale
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No, it's part of some volunteer work I'm doing. There's a shortage of electricians in New Orleans and many of the homes we work on gutting and whatnot have to sit for weeks or months waiting on electricians before the walls can be closed.

The theory is that running conduit would let the walls get closed much sooner so the rest of the house repairs can continue while waiting on someone to come back and finish the electrical. I've stayed in houses where there were either no half-closed walls (meaning, sheetrocked on one side) or where the walls had been half-closed for several months. Personally, I like privacy and walls with no doors, or walls with no sheetrock isn't exactly "private". And, please, don't get me started talking about rats :)

Also, I think more people would be willing to work with plastic pipe than with wires because of the perception that perhaps this gray plastic pipe stuff isn't as dangerous as that evil copper wire stuff. I've had people who were comfortable up to their pits in toxic flood water debris be afraid of watching a panel to keep someone from turning a breaker back on. Electricity is "scarey", plastic is "friendly". I don't think this is a bad thing, either.
 
If they think plastic is friendly, they've never sniffed the glue - or maybe they've sniffed it too much?

Seriously - if it has to be PVC, I would run 3/4 with three #6 and one #10, unless the pull is really long.

Mark
 
tallgirl said:
No, it's part of some volunteer work I'm doing.
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Yeah, I've been following your story for a while. It was the part about needing to close up the walls without the electrical I was missing.

It seems we have similar interests but you ask better questions. That's why I'm more of a reader than a poster--I don't like sticking my foot in my mouth.:D

Sounds like you're in the perfect spot to accomplish your career goals. Best of Luck!

-Dale
 
busman said:
If they think plastic is friendly, they've never sniffed the glue - or maybe they've sniffed it too much?

Seriously - if it has to be PVC, I would run 3/4 with three #6 and one #10, unless the pull is really long.

Mark
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I don't know how PVC cement is going to go over with this folks. On the other hand, there are places which still have Katrina in them. And never underestimate how bad a 13 month old fridge that's not been opened since can smell.
 
macmikeman
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Are you in Hawaii? If so I hope all is well with you and yours.
 
tallgirl said:
The theory is that running conduit would let the walls get closed much sooner so the rest of the house repairs can continue while waiting on someone to come back and finish the electrical.
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Around here we're required to have an inspection before closing up, regardless of the wiring method.
Rick
 
RUWired said:
Around here we're required to have an inspection before closing up, regardless of the wiring method.
Rick
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In New Orleans, the inspection process currently consists of the building owner and a licensed electrician signing an affidavit saying things were done correctly, along with a possible walkthru by an inspector. You could request a "real" inspection, but then you'd likely wait a long time.

I don't think this would work anywhere else. Thankfully there aren't that many major cities with the amount of damage as New Orleans.
 
1793 said:
[ Are you in Hawaii? If so I hope all is well with you and yours.
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Thanks for asking Norb, we are all fine. We lost power for a full day and to be honest it was quite a rocking we had. Big Island is another story. Lots of damaged houses, buildings, churches, roads, you name it, but thankfully not really much injury and no deaths.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
You could pull range wire 4 conductor faster than running pvc.Run a 4 wire 50 amp circuit and just keep going.If it turns out your wrong then call the patchman.
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Agreed, for situations where someone with experience is doing the work.

I'm trying to turn inexperienced college kids into plumbers because I think it's easier to make them into plumbers than make them into licensed electricians :)

Oh -- my booklet is up to 19 pages and I've booked a vacation day for next weekend. If any of y'all are in New Orleans, drop me a message and I'll let you buy me a muffaletta when I get to town.
 
tallgirl said:
Agreed, for situations where someone with experience is doing the work.

I'm trying to turn inexperienced college kids into plumbers because I think it's easier to make them into plumbers than make them into licensed electricians :)

Oh -- my booklet is up to 19 pages and I've booked a vacation day for next weekend. If any of y'all are in New Orleans, drop me a message and I'll let you buy me a muffaletta when I get to town.
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They dont need to be electricians.One hour of training on how to pull wire without damage should be enough.Paint them a dot on the spool of wire and tell them to match it to the ones on the floor.They gotta be smarter than laborers from the labor pool and i can even get them to handle that.They could mess pipe up even more.What if they go over 360 degrees ?If they are this stupid then let them sweep the floor or dig a ditch.I use to hir my
x brother inlaw to help wire houses.He had no clue on how things worked but he could pull wire from box to box and drill holes.Use them to the abilty they can handle and just inspect.My wife can trim a house.Made it easy on her,if you see anything other than black and white then dont touch it.Red means go get Jim.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
They dont need to be electricians.One hour of training on how to pull wire without damage should be enough.Paint them a dot on the spool of wire and tell them to match it to the ones on the floor.They gotta be smarter than laborers from the labor pool and i can even get them to handle that.They could mess pipe up even more.What if they go over 360 degrees ?If they are this stupid then let them sweep the floor or dig a ditch.I use to hir my
x brother inlaw to help wire houses.He had no clue on how things worked but he could pull wire from box to box and drill holes.Use them to the abilty they can handle and just inspect.My wife can trim a house.Made it easy on her,if you see anything other than black and white then dont touch it.Red means go get Jim.
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Tell ya what -- if things work out well this way, maybe I'll spend my winter break seeing if I can get them to pull wire without messing it up?
 
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