conductor split between 2 lugs

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Dennis Alwon said:
No arguments there, however, the fact that the wire is essentially the same length means that the current will be virtually equal on the split. If this is so then there would be no need to oversize the fingers.

The fact is the code says no--- I just don't see where there should be an issue in this install. Would I turn it down? Probably just to make a point.
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A lot of things might work but we are not hacks and we need to follow NEC as close as we know how. When an inspector allows hack work and non NEC compliant he is hurting the real electricians. Tag him for it and he will learn not to do it again. Let it slide and you will soon see it all the time.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
why would that be a stretch? It is parallel, IMO. Do I think there should be a problem with this-- probably not but I don't see it as code compliant.
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I see no problem electrically as long as both terminals are tight. In fact, you probably have a better connection to the bus because you have increased the contact area.
480sparky said:
Most stranded conductors have an odd number of strands. That alone will prevent the current from dividing evenly. Some even have 2-3 different sizes of strands.
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Not an issue of any significant electrical consequence.
One-eyed Jack said:
...You guys don't seriously think that a detrimental current division is going to occur at that point.
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Nope
charlie b said:
Is this a neutral wire? If so, then how about 408.41?
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Game. Set. Match.
 
charlie b said:
Of course it is. That is my point. A conductor (please note: singular) must be terminated under an individual terminal (please note: also singular). The photo shows one conductor being terminated under two terminals. I call that a violation of 408.41.
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This is a neutral conductor and I had looked at that code section but wasn't sure about it because of no other conductor...but your argument sure seems to hit the nail on the head.

That seems to clearly and concisely take care of this 'neutral' conductor violation....just wish there was something as concise for other than neutral conductors.
 
I think this is a violation of paralleling conductors. What's next - landing each of the 19 strands of a 4/0 conductor on its own terminal. Would take up half the neutral bar. Would it be legal?

Mark
 
So here we are with a legitimate fitting that is approved for the purpose, however, art.408.41 does not give an exception for fittings approved for the purpose. Now what.

These lugs have been a standard around here years ago and have been quite readily accepted by the AHJ. My question is it really any different other than the other install wreaks of hack.

I totally see Charlie's point on the wording of this article. The terminal is not rated for half a conductor :grin: but really is that not a bit absurd.

The important thing is that you all know there is a viable solution to this situation so go out and order some today. When you need one you will probably never find it. :grin:

Surely others have had this situation...... What did you all do?


Dennis Alwon said:
646134_front200.jpg
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One-eyed Jack said:
My point exactly. The letter of NEC is one thing. The intent is what we hope to get. I won't split hairs over a literal interpretation. The english language is too ambiguous for me to spend time flogging a dead horse.
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I don't think the connector shown violates the NEC. I prefer to think of the connector (I use them all the time) as a UL Listed addition to the neutral bus that provides a "single terminal" for the connection of a larger conductor. The neutral wire is still landing on a single terminal. It's all in how you look at it. Is the fitting an extension of the conductor or a mod to the neutral bus? I think its a mod.

Mark
 
busman said:
I don't think the connector shown violates the NEC. I prefer to think of the connector (I use them all the time) as a UL Listed addition to the neutral bus that provides a "single terminal" for the connection of a larger conductor. The neutral wire is still landing on a single terminal. It's all in how you look at it. Is the fitting an extension of the conductor or a mod to the neutral bus? I think its a mod.

Mark
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Agreed .
 
busman said:
I don't think the connector shown violates the NEC. I prefer to think of the connector (I use them all the time) as a UL Listed addition to the neutral bus that provides a "single terminal" for the connection of a larger conductor. The neutral wire is still landing on a single terminal. It's all in how you look at it. Is the fitting an extension of the conductor or a mod to the neutral bus? I think its a mod.

Mark
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I'm sold. (Message too short error) :)
 
Been saving this picture for just the right time. Yes, that really is an old two level neutral bar with the terminals removed (I think) being used to extend the service neutral 6 inches. Don't ask me why it was cut short in the first place. This is NOT a UL listed mod to the neutral bar.

I replaced the missing section with piece of 4/0 and an H-tap.
 
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sameguy said:
When you do parallel do you pull the same length wires? I think not. Then one leg is pulling more amps than the
other; I would rather split my wire within 3/8" than explain why my feeders aren't the same length.
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Same Length = Most certainly. 310.4(B)(1)

Feeders not the same length = No explanation neccessary, only correction! :grin:
 
dana1028 said:
I can't find the code section for this :-?
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I made a similiar post a while back but the replies were split on the answer. I have seen lots of #4 Green EGC split between two lugs on the grounding bar, but never tried it myself. I dont see a problem with it but I wouldnt try it on a hot or neutral unless it was 1/0 or more. But even then I think the code should be revised on parallel conductors , it shouldnt matter if one conductor of any size carries slightly more current than another as long as the conductors are sized to carry the slight difference . I know i will get replies on what is the slight difference. well it could be calculated for extra ohms of the slightly longer wire.
 
Wire split between Two Lugs.

Wire split between Two Lugs.

This violates the rating of the lugs. I don't know of any which are rated for half or a fraction of a wire gage.

Also, this would violate Listings, IMHO, since lugs aren't tested this way. For sure they would fail the pull-out test.

Welcome to the age of "where does it say I can't do that?*"

* Translation: "Hold my beer and watch this!"

Regards . . .
 
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