connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
- Thread starter mostra
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bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
Heres a Quote from UL's RTRTGuideInfo:
Heres a Quote from UL's RTRTGuideInfo:
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
Where can I find this Quote in the UL's RTRT Guide. Is this guide viewable online or will it have to be purchased?
The reason I'm asking is that recently I installed 2 receptacles in a cabinet in a showroom for a dealership in South Carolina and a UL Inspector said it was a code violation, That the "NEW" code says you can't twist a stranded wire around the screw.
Where can I find this Quote in the UL's RTRT Guide. Is this guide viewable online or will it have to be purchased?
The reason I'm asking is that recently I installed 2 receptacles in a cabinet in a showroom for a dealership in South Carolina and a UL Inspector said it was a code violation, That the "NEW" code says you can't twist a stranded wire around the screw.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
Unless this "new" code is a local code, the inspector is full of it. Go here:
UL Online Directory
Unless this "new" code is a local code, the inspector is full of it. Go here:
UL Online Directory
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
Print out the page from UL and ask the inspector for the Code reference where there is a local restriction on the use of stranded wire.
Print out the page from UL and ask the inspector for the Code reference where there is a local restriction on the use of stranded wire.
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
Who's a UL inspector?
Who's a UL inspector?
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
Great question Todd.
Great question Todd.
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
Sorry, I'm in Smart a$$ mode today, thanks to my son.Originally posted by charlie:
Great question Todd.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
Actually Todd, there are UL inspectors. I doubt they call themselves an inspector but they inspect non-listed equipment for compliance with the UL standards for a field listing. Bottom line. it was indeed a good question. Now it would be good to know who the inspector was that he was talking about.
Actually Todd, there are UL inspectors. I doubt they call themselves an inspector but they inspect non-listed equipment for compliance with the UL standards for a field listing. Bottom line. it was indeed a good question. Now it would be good to know who the inspector was that he was talking about.
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
My Father does showroom installations for BMW The "MINI" and the display cases and lighting come from Germany. Therefore the wiring is Brown, Yellow, Green...IE...Black, White & Green.
The Contractor in South Carolina gaves us alot of grief about the equipment not being UL approved that I had to go in afterwords and wire the entire display to the UL standards. (The SJ cord used to feed the displays were not UL approved and I changed the entire wiring layout with UL approved SJ). The German Cord didn't say "UL".
But after changing everything to "OUR"...The US standards, The installation had to be inspected by a "UL" Inspector to get the Stamp of approval.
Thus...this is where the inspector tried to say that stranded wire twisted was a code violation according to the "New" code.
We, My Father and I are now trying to get ahold of the inspector that told us this to get some type of Restitution from the Cost of having to go to Home Depot and purchase Crimps and a crimp tool and the cost of gas for us to drive 10 hours to rectify this so called "Code Violation".
My Father does showroom installations for BMW The "MINI" and the display cases and lighting come from Germany. Therefore the wiring is Brown, Yellow, Green...IE...Black, White & Green.
The Contractor in South Carolina gaves us alot of grief about the equipment not being UL approved that I had to go in afterwords and wire the entire display to the UL standards. (The SJ cord used to feed the displays were not UL approved and I changed the entire wiring layout with UL approved SJ). The German Cord didn't say "UL".
But after changing everything to "OUR"...The US standards, The installation had to be inspected by a "UL" Inspector to get the Stamp of approval.
Thus...this is where the inspector tried to say that stranded wire twisted was a code violation according to the "New" code.
We, My Father and I are now trying to get ahold of the inspector that told us this to get some type of Restitution from the Cost of having to go to Home Depot and purchase Crimps and a crimp tool and the cost of gas for us to drive 10 hours to rectify this so called "Code Violation".
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
It depends to some extent what standard the UL inspector was inspecting to. It may be that he inspected it to UL508a which appears to cover just about any assembly of parts with wires on them that don't get covered otherwise.
You should find out just what it is your equipment was required to meet. Just meeting the NEC will not cut it, although one would be inclined to think it would.
It depends to some extent what standard the UL inspector was inspecting to. It may be that he inspected it to UL508a which appears to cover just about any assembly of parts with wires on them that don't get covered otherwise.
You should find out just what it is your equipment was required to meet. Just meeting the NEC will not cut it, although one would be inclined to think it would.
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
Bob is right on the money
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
from UL508a standard
29.3.3 A connection to a wire-binding screw shall be made as follows such that no loose strands protrude from the connection:
a) Solid wire formed into a loop at least three quarters (270 degrees) around the terminal; or
b) Stranded wire that is:
1) Soldered;
2) Connected to a terminal provided with upturned ends;
3) Connected to a terminal provided with a cup washer; or
4) Connected to a crimped pressure terminal connector or eyelet;
from UL508a standard
29.3.3 A connection to a wire-binding screw shall be made as follows such that no loose strands protrude from the connection:
a) Solid wire formed into a loop at least three quarters (270 degrees) around the terminal; or
b) Stranded wire that is:
1) Soldered;
2) Connected to a terminal provided with upturned ends;
3) Connected to a terminal provided with a cup washer; or
4) Connected to a crimped pressure terminal connector or eyelet;
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
This info should be in the White book
This info should be in the White book
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
When instructions are in a standard, they are for the performance of the test and not for the listing requirements. If they were in the UL White Book, the NEC, or the manufacturer's instructions, they would apply to the electrician. For what it is worth, it does seem like the same instructions should be in the White Book.
When instructions are in a standard, they are for the performance of the test and not for the listing requirements. If they were in the UL White Book, the NEC, or the manufacturer's instructions, they would apply to the electrician. For what it is worth, it does seem like the same instructions should be in the White Book.
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
Charlie
I think that the way they have to make the connection in the test is how they have to manufacture the product.
Or is this what you meant?
Charlie
I think that the way they have to make the connection in the test is how they have to manufacture the product.
Or is this what you meant?
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
Larry, the setup for the tests have no bearing on the rules of installation. If I were testing a circuit breaker, it would be by itself on a bench in free air. I don't believe circuit breakers are installed that way. If the testing laboratory, manufacturer's instructions, or the NEC does not set up requirements for the way the installation is done, you are free to do it anyway you wish. If the stranded wire is soldered and the termination gets hot enough to permit the solder to melt, you lose your connection. Hence the reason for being mechanically secure first.
The bottom line is that the standard is not to be used to make a requirement for installation even though I agree that it should be included in the requirements.
Larry, the setup for the tests have no bearing on the rules of installation. If I were testing a circuit breaker, it would be by itself on a bench in free air. I don't believe circuit breakers are installed that way. If the testing laboratory, manufacturer's instructions, or the NEC does not set up requirements for the way the installation is done, you are free to do it anyway you wish. If the stranded wire is soldered and the termination gets hot enough to permit the solder to melt, you lose your connection. Hence the reason for being mechanically secure first.
The bottom line is that the standard is not to be used to make a requirement for installation even though I agree that it should be included in the requirements.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
UL508a is the standard that must be followed by any industrial control panel builder wishing to get the product UL Listed. Typically UL508a items are not tested they are only inspected.
The terminations on a UL Listed, per UL 498, wiring device have the proper construction (i.e. rescessed screws) to maintain stranded conductors if they are listed for use with stranded conductors.
UL508a is the standard that must be followed by any industrial control panel builder wishing to get the product UL Listed. Typically UL508a items are not tested they are only inspected.
The terminations on a UL Listed, per UL 498, wiring device have the proper construction (i.e. rescessed screws) to maintain stranded conductors if they are listed for use with stranded conductors.
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: connecting stranded wire to receptacles/commercial use
Charlie
I don't think we disagree, just we are about 58 degrees out of phase
Another example:
If a prduct is evaluated with a #18 conductor for some portion of the internal wiring, then that is how the product is suppsed to be manufactured.
So back to the connections. I will revise part of my statement. The product has to be manufactured with connections made per the standard ( there are some options as quoted by the standards) and that is how it is supposed to be manufactured.
This has nothing to do with installation or field connections which is covered by the instructions or white book.
Charlie
I don't think we disagree, just we are about 58 degrees out of phase
Another example:
If a prduct is evaluated with a #18 conductor for some portion of the internal wiring, then that is how the product is suppsed to be manufactured.
So back to the connections. I will revise part of my statement. The product has to be manufactured with connections made per the standard ( there are some options as quoted by the standards) and that is how it is supposed to be manufactured.
This has nothing to do with installation or field connections which is covered by the instructions or white book.
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