connector backwards

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binney

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We use SE cable for our new residential services. When the pedestal and the panel are back to back coming through a poured wall, it's hard to get the connector tight on both ends. So the last few services i did i put the connector on backwards so that the set screws were on the inside and the locknut and bushing are on the backside.

Is this a code violation and why?

*atleast this way both connectors are tight, most guys just float them in on one end
 
A

a.wayne3@verizon.net

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Re: connector backwards

Binney,the imspectors here would tag that in a heart beat why????? The wires in the cable do not have the type printed on them ,it`s on the sheathing not the wire itself.I know ridiculous,but all I can say is welcome to pasco county florida :eek:
 
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speedypetey

Senior Member
Location
Hudson Valley, NY
Re: connector backwards

a.wayne,

Are you saying if the cable is installed where the sheathing is concealed it can't be used unless the conductors have info on them? What about the braid?
 
russ

russ

Senior Member
Location
Burbank IL
Re: connector backwards

I don't see how a connector that is put on backwords or inside out, can comply with 300.4(F).

Russ
 
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a.wayne3@verizon.net

Guest
Re: connector backwards

Scott that`s not what I am saying.About 6 months ago we had allot of pieces of 4/0 AL SER, so we sent them out on rough ins to be used as feeders for back to back services.Since the outer sheathing was removed and there were no markings at all on the wire the inspector tagged each and every one of them,since the wire had no type printed on it.That is what I am saying
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: connector backwards

Originally posted by a.wayne3@verizon.net:
Since the outer sheathing was removed and there were no markings at all on the wire the inspector tagged each and every one of them,since the wire had no type printed on it.
Click to expand...
Another fine example that commonsense is dead. :roll: :mad:
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: connector backwards

I don't see how a connector that is put on backwords or inside out, can comply with 300.4(F).
Click to expand...
It does not have to, 300.4(F) does not apply to cables, unless they are entering in a raceway. :)

The opening post was about SE.

[ December 14, 2003, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
russ

russ

Senior Member
Location
Burbank IL
Re: connector backwards

Bob,
I read 300.4 wrong. It looks like you don't need a bushing at all for service cable, unless there is something I'm missing

Russ
 
D

david

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
Re: connector backwards

312.5 Cabinets, Cutout Boxes, and Meter Socket Enclosures.
Conductors entering enclosures within the scope of this article shall be protected from abrasion and shall comply with 312.5(A) through (C).

Conductors entering a enclosure are required to be protected from abrasion. You guys ask for common sense to be used here, A box connector installed backwards provides for a source of abrasion and does not protect a conductor against abrasion
 
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jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: connector backwards

Wayne and I both put up with some tough inspectors.Basicly if you can wire in the CITY OF TAMPA you can wire anywhere.And if you get caught trying to hide violations your in for a real hard time.I for one never lie to inspectors and think of them as friends.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: connector backwards

Originally posted by david:
A box connector installed backwards provides for a source of abrasion and does not protect a conductor against abrasion
Click to expand...
Interesting, so when it is installed the normal way the wires outside the box are subject to abrasion. :confused:
 
P

pierre

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
Re: connector backwards

I tend to agree with David that the conductors inside the enclosure have more of a chance of damage to them based on bending the conductors to shape them to the enclosure. Most will not or cannot bend the cable outside the enclosure the same as the conductors on the inside. As well other conductors that are installed inside the enclosure have a chance of damage from the protruding screws and clamp.

Pierre
 
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binney

Inactive, Email Never Verified
Re: connector backwards

Thanks for all the responses.
I have a few more questions for your answers.

speedypetey
Member
Member # 12900
Why don't you just put the connector on the cable before you mount the panel. Then mount the panel and run the LN and bushing on.

2 reasons.
1. When running the cable through a solid concrete wall it's easier to face the locknut and bushing to the back,then set screws on the connector. The LN and bushing fit in the hole we drill for the SE cable. If you put the set screws to the back you need to get the BFH and the chisel out to make room for the screws. (if your solution to that problem is drill a bigger hole, I've found out the hard way people have a hard time with you drilling a hole any bigger than absolutely necessary in there new poured walls.)

2. There's more room for error. Nothing makes me more mad, than hanging the panel up, and finding out I can't get the LN and bushing on. That's why a lot a guys just float the wire in, and don't tighten the set screws.
If it's quicker, easier and safe why not do it?
 
B

binney

Inactive, Email Never Verified
Re: connector backwards

speedypetey
Member
Member # 12900
312.5 Cabinets, Cutout Boxes, and Meter Socket Enclosures.
Conductors entering enclosures within the scope of this article shall be protected from abrasion and shall comply with 312.5(A) through (C).

Conductors entering a enclosure are required to be protected from abrasion. You guys ask for common sense to be used here, A box connector installed backwards provides for a source of abrasion and does not protect a conductor against abrasion

Why is the connector any more abrasive on the inside than the outside? As long as you follow bending radius what's the difference?
 
B

binney

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Re: connector backwards

a.wayne3@verizon.net
Binney,the imspectors here would tag that in a heart beat why????? The wires in the cable do not have the type printed on them ,it`s on the sheathing not the wire itself.I know ridiculous,but all I can say is welcome to pasco county florida


This sounds to me, like you your telling me, you wouldn't allow the use of se cable at all. That has never been a problem for us.

Would leaving enough sheathing on in the pedestal solve this problem? As long as the type shows?
 
B

binney

Inactive, Email Never Verified
Re: connector backwards

jimwalker
Member
Member?# 13241
Wayne and I both put up with some tough inspectors.Basicly if you can wire in the CITY OF TAMPA you can wire anywhere.And if you get caught trying to hide violations your in for a real hard time.I for one never lie to inspectors and think of them as friends.



I hope you're not incinuating that I would lie to an inspector. I actually confronted one of our local inspectors on this subject and he had no problem with it. I replaced over 50 overhead services with pedestals this summer (the local utility went from all overhead to underground) and a majority of them were run in existing SE cable. By putting the connectors on backwards I avoided trying to make a hole around these existing cables and doing any unnecessary damage.

My work covers the entire SE corner of WI. This means a lot of different inspectors and a lot of different interpretations of the code. I have a feeling a few of these guys can hold there own with City of Tampa. How about not enough No-LOX, not enough caulk, holes in the back of plastic 4" squares not taped off, the red sticker missing on 1 fan box although it's identical to the rest of them in the house. That was just last week. I could continue but I'd start to get mad.
 
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