conventional to addressable conversion

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nhfire77

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What do you think about a swap out a conventional to addressable FACP? :-? I've seen it done in this manner before. I saw it in public housing in Lowell, MA and other public housing projects, but I haven't done it personally.

I am using Silent Knight IFP-1000 (5820XL). I will be using the SD500-MIM (mini input modules) to monitor the sprinkler zones.

I realize the tampers should be separated out but, it was found to be permissible by the AHJ to leave the zones as is, along as any zone that would need to be repaired/replaced at a later date would become fully addressable. The current panel is on its way out, but, not dead, and no one is mandating the change, yet. The owner realized proactive is better than reactive. (yea that's unusual, but refreshing)


I will use a SD-500-SDM (smoke detector modules) to monitor the existing two wire smoke/pull station zones.

Technically the SDM's are for smokes or a conventional two wire circuit, not necessarily mixed devices.

So what do you think
 
IMO, anytime a conventional system is changed to a addressable system it's a good thing, if it is done right.

Is the system too big to just replace the existing devices with addressable ones? By having old conventional devices you lose several advantages of the addressable system. The money saves in trouble shooting alone could be worth the extra cost. But you also lose the sensitivity test feature of this panel, so detectors are technically supposed to be sensitivity tested every 5 years, but this system has the ability to monitor the sensitivity and print out a report. The addressable detectors will tell you when they are dirty, greatly reducing false alarms.

I take it there are several WF's and tampers through out the building?

But I think that you are right in saying that you can't mix detectors and pulls with the SDM.

If anything you are putting in a good backbone for upgrading to a full addressable system in the future. And you can't go wrong with Silent Knight, though I don't really care for the proprietary part of the IFP line. ;)

Good luck with the project!!!
 
scannless said:
But I think that you are right in saying that you can't mix detectors and pulls with the SDM.
Click to expand...

From Silent Knight's web site.

The SD500-SDM allows you to assign an address to a loop of conventional detection devices. These devices can be dry contacts such as pull stations and heat detectors, or 2-wire smoke detectors. This means you can retrofit an existing building and utilize existing conventional devices. The SD500-SDM uses a 24VDC auxiliary power input to power the conventional loop, and is connected to the SLC loop via two wires. The conventional loop can be configured as Class A or Class B giving you the flexibility to handle any job.

Mix 'em up all you like.
 
I read that also but I took this:

These devices can be dry contacts such as pull stations and heat detectors, or 2-wire smoke detectors.
Click to expand...

To mean either dry contact devices OR 2-wire detectors not both, but I could be totally wrong as I have never used them. I apologize if I was!!
 
The building is question is over 200,000 square feet, the panel is on its way out. The owners don't have the $100,000+++ to replace everything and upgrade it to code. There are 7 sprinkler risers to give you an idea what I am talking about.

I would love to get the contract to upgrade the whole building, but I am not big enough to handle that in a timely manner. However, I can take on one part at a time, when its renovated.

Its win-win-win to me, FD is happy with a new addressable system, customer has an affordable solution and I get a steady stream of work in the future (hopefully!).
 
You need to make sure the module has enough power to power smoke detectors or use 4 wire smoke detectors. As most modules are only made for dry contacts.
 
You are correct sir!!

You are correct sir!!

brennan said:
You need to make sure the module has enough power to power smoke detectors or use 4 wire smoke detectors. As most modules are only made for dry contacts.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply.

The SLC couldn't power a loop (circuit).

The smoke detector modules require a seperate 24 V DC power supply for the loop. The module limits the loop current to 100 mA. I will be feeding it from the FACP. Most detectors require a system limited current to a specifc rating, around 100 mA. (130 mA for a system sensor 2W-B)
 
It is not that the slc cannot power smoke det it is if the modules are made to power smoke det. Just use 4 wire smokes and monitor power at EOL and be good to go.
 
brennan said:
It is not that the slc cannot power smoke det it is if the modules are made to power smoke det. Just use 4 wire smokes and monitor power at EOL and be good to go.
Click to expand...

The module is not designed to power the smokes. The module has a aux. power input for this use.
 
Our company just finished a 4-year project on a 600,000 sq ft bldg here in the bay area, we installed a brand new 5820XL with 8 smart pawer supply boxes and 5 dummy ones. I gotta say I'm very impressed with the way the system is performing in a bldg with top-lne companies and 1,200 employees.
 
scannless said:
I read that also but I took this:



To mean either dry contact devices OR 2-wire detectors not both, but I could be totally wrong as I have never used them. I apologize if I was!!
Click to expand...

From Bill Root at Honeywell/Silent Knight

The SD500-SDM will support both two wire smokes and devices that put a
dead short on the circuit such as manual pull stations. You can mix
these on the same circuit but the programming of the SDM only allows you
to select it as a detector module and it will display and report as a
detector.
 
kewl, thanks for the info!!! :cool:

Displaying and reporting as a detector could be a problem, it can make it very confusing in the event of an alarm. Some one hits a pull and the fire department is running around looking for a smoke or heat in alarm. But you can only do what you can do. good info to know though.
 
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Yes, I am going to name the modules like this "1st Floor SMOKES and PULLS" ... so the display will show smoke detector and that description. The FD is OK with this because its an upgrade to an antiquated system, step in the right direction.
 
You need to review the installation instructions for the module, which I'm guessing you have, but you also need to verify that the module is "Listed" to monitor the smoke detectors if they're to be 2-Wire smoke detectors (Reference NFPA 72, 2007 edition, section 4.4.2).

The problem you may have is that the existing smoke detectors are so old, that the manufacture hasn't "Listed" them to work with that particular module. You should be able to ask the manufacture what smoke detectors are listed with the particular module.

SLC loops are typically "Power Limited", meaning they're limited in the amount of power they can provide in order to operated conventional smoke detectors. Different smoke detectors have different current draw, which is why the manufacture will only listed them with particular detectors.

Regards,
Dan
 
You are correct sir!!!!!

You are correct sir!!!!!

Dan

I totally agree. As part of the installation contract, any code violations or incompatibilities that arose would be corrected for T+M. I actually just finished the job.

As for an SLC being power limited yes, but... The smoke modules require a separate aux power supply input, power limited at 100mA, to comply with 2-wire smoke requirements.

We replaced every smoke. It was only a total of 30 smokes covering 200,000 sq feet, although it is fully sprinkled. When we had our inspection we found out the FD and the Building dept had written up the place for all kinds of violations, including the fire alarm. I found out what exactly was going on during the inspection, even though we had a conference with the inspector prior. Now that the "existing" system has been maintained (even though it was a complete replacement) he will be requiring more detection.

Gotta love that unexpected revenue stream in today's economy.
 
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I just completed doing this in a church last summer. It is the best solution for you, your customer and the AHJ. Here is what I did...
I took all of the original conventional zones, tested all circuits for opens, shorts, grounds - located the EOLR.
I'm a Notifier Distributor so installed a 320 panel. All the new devices I added ot the new second story were addressable by point, the existing devices are monitored by addressable zone modules. This allowed the upgrade and 1/2 the building fully addressable. This year they found more money, so we will change out a zone at a time and make it an SLC loop.
 
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