Cooktop

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Oakey

Oakey

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New Jersey
Hello all....I have a customer with an existing electric 40 amp 220v cooktop. There is an existing #6 SEU cable (2 hots,1 bare neutral) run to a junction box and from there an older romex 8/3 feeds up to the cooktop. If I connect the SEU bare to the white and ground of the romex is that compliant? Its an existing installation I want to correct, the ground of the romex is currently not connected in the junction box from a DIY installation. Not really possible to run a new line either. Thx for any help!
 
Oakey said:
Hello all....I have a customer with an existing electric 40 amp 220v cooktop. There is an existing #6 SEU cable (2 hots,1 bare neutral) run to a junction box and from there an older romex 8/3 feeds up to the cooktop. If I connect the SEU bare to the white and ground of the romex is that compliant? Its an existing installation I want to correct, the ground of the romex is currently not connected in the junction box from a DIY installation. Not really possible to run a new line either. Thx for any help!
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i would say connecting the ground and white of the 8/3 to the SEU bare would be a violation of 310.4 since im thinking that would make it the white and bare a parallel installation. why not use 8/2 romex?
 
electricalperson said:
on older cooktops/ranges and dryers they only used a 3 wire receptacle. the ground served as a neutral and the equipment ground.
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I realize that, would you be okay with that now? Hook that up to a GFCI,.....:grin:
 
76nemo said:
I realize that, would you be okay with that now? Hook that up to a GFCI,.....:grin:
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i think if its existing its alright. im not sure if the new cooktops are able to be hooked up like that. heres a question to the OP. why is it not possible to get a new feed up there? im pretty sure its legal to have a 3 wire cord to an existing appliance from an existing 3 wire receptacle. i dont have a codebook handy so im trying my best from my head :grin:
 
ok i found a code reference for this. 250.140

the exception allows in existing locations the frame of the cooktop shall be permitted to be connected to the grounded circuit conductor. theres also a list that goes with it the OP should read to see if the code allows what he has at the house
 
I guess this is no different than splicing a new cooktop 4 wire to an old SEU, but now theres romex 8/3 in between. There was a range next to the cooktop and someone spliced the newer cooktop into the same circuit by using a jb in the basement. From there it went to 8/3 romex which is why im not sure about this application and its compliance. It is currently hard wired. Ill read up on 250.140 thanks for the reference
 
To me, the most compliant thing to do with the existing cables is to snip off the bare wire at both ends of the NM, and connect only the white.

In existing installations, a bare in SE may be used, but in NM, it must be insulated. Also, as an existing installation, a 3-wire receptacle and cord is permissable.

If, on the other hand, the desire is to use a 4-conductor receptacle and cord, the SE must be replaced with a cable with four conductors, EGC included.
 
There is a 4 wire whip on the cooktop, that is one of my concerns.
I guess I just havent seen SEU "converted" to romex feeding ovens/cooktops before and Im just not sure about it.
 
In this case, you need to combine the white and green/bare at the cooktop's J-box and not use the NM's bare at all as I said before. Treat this like a 3-conductor circuit all the way.
 
OK we had a bit of a problem last night and I have turned back the clock on this thread.

Please feel free to respond to the original post.
 
Well thx guys for the replies. Im not sure what to say, but what was written here initially really helped me out, code references and great explanations. There are times you cant run a new wire and need to make do with what you have, but want to be code compliant in the meantime. Thx again
 
We just went over the old 3 wire hook-up in a current CEU class, here in new jersey, and it was intresting to note the New Jersey Rehap Code allows a lot of short cuts, one of two issued it addressed was the Rehap Code does not allow you to use the old 3 wire feed, and they don't seem to care that the owner may have to tare up walls to replace the feed. once you disconnect it you replace it with 4 wire, for many years we let the 3 wire remain, but things do change. The next time you hitan issue like this you can call Trenton DCA and they will be glad to help you. There are so many short cuts we can take with the Rehap Codes, but it appears the 3 wire is not one of them.
 
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electricalperson said:
ok i found a code reference for this. 250.140

the exception allows in existing locations the frame of the cooktop shall be permitted to be connected to the grounded circuit conductor. theres also a list that goes with it the OP should read to see if the code allows what he has at the house
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There is an exception for Mobile homes

Tony mentioned Mikes's comments saying it was allowed, would like to see what Mike had to say on the issue.
 
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