Copper tariffs

865resi

865resi

Senior Member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
Electrician
Copper tariffs went into effect July 8. This week Lowe's lowered their prices on Romex 250' rolls. 14\2 is now $95.00 and 12\2 is now $139.00. Any thoughts?
 
Nothing beyond the usual economics... demand destruction elsewhere has caused a (relative) oversupply here.
 
letgomywago said:
We also have the factor of the wire manufacturers being scared of copper clad aluminum taking market share.
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What is the idea behind copper clad aluminum? From what I have heard the copper isn't thick enough to appreciably lower the resistance. Other than looking like copper, what is the point?
 
ggunn said:
What is the idea behind copper clad aluminum? From what I have heard the copper isn't thick enough to appreciably lower the resistance. Other than looking like copper, what is the point?
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The reduced cost and lower weight of aluminum, with some of the durability and greater connection options of copper?

Cheers, Wayne
 
Copper Rod which electrical wire is produced from is exempt from tariffs, so I heard.
 
I found an old piece of CC aluminum #10 at my sister house. I had never seen any before. Thought it was copper until I read the jacket. Breaks pretty easy when you bend it a few times. #10 rated 25 amps. Circuit was abandoned used to feed a through the wall AC.
 
ggunn said:
What is the idea behind copper clad aluminum? From what I have heard the copper isn't thick enough to appreciably lower the resistance. Other than looking like copper, what is the point?
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The copper is 10% of the area and the idea is that you don't have the issues with terminating it, but you really do. The UL product standards for wire connectors require the connectors to be marked "CC". There also has been a recent change in the UL standards for wiring devices.

In the recent past, if the wiring device was marked for copper you could also terminate CCA to is.

That was changed in June of 2024 and wiring devices used with CCA must be marked CC. The 2026 code cycle did not catch that change so the information in 406.10 is incorrect. This will be a case where the manufacture's instructions are the actual rule and supersede the rule in 406.10
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The copper is 10% of the area and the idea is that you don't have the issues with terminating it, but you really do. The UL product standards for wire connectors require the connectors to be marked "CC". There also has been a recent change in the UL standards for wiring devices.
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So is there a technical justification for imposing stricter standards for terminating to copper clad compared to solid copper?

Cheers, Wayne
 
ModbusMan said:
Nothing beyond the usual economics... demand destruction elsewhere has caused a (relative) oversupply here.
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And squirrely things like vendors anticipating tariffs going into effect and importing as much of the good as they can before the effective date, thus sitting on a temporary surplus of inventory. If the demand wasn't what they anticipated, prices will need to drop.
 
Its amusing the things people try to cut costs on in residential construction then shell out for extras.
People will spend $1200 on a single ceiling fan, thousands extra on wifi smart dimmers, 10k on a range, $100k on a detached garage then try to save by using AL wire, poor quality box store plumbing shutoffs and fixtures, skimp on footings and concrete, use cheap roofing, undersized the septic..
Invest in the essential items, wire, plumbing, foundation, roof. Cut back on luxury items not wire.
 
WD40 said:
Its amusing the things people try to cut costs on in residential construction then shell out for extras.
People will spend $1200 on a single ceiling fan, thousands extra on wifi smart dimmers, 10k on a range, $100k on a detached garage then try to save by using AL wire, poor quality box store plumbing shutoffs and fixtures, skimp on footings and concrete, use cheap roofing, undersized the septic..
Invest in the essential items, wire, plumbing, foundation, roof. Cut back on luxury items not wire.
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The homeowner chooses the items they will see and use and will pay for what they want. In most cases they have no idea what type of wire, pipes, etc. are being installed if they are not specific.

As far as foundation, septic and things like that in my area they all get engineered and inspected so can't really cheap out. For custom homes the homeowner chooses what they want. Could be the lowest grade asphalt shingles or real slate.
 
WD40 said:
Its amusing the things people try to cut costs on in residential construction then shell out for extras.
People will spend $1200 on a single ceiling fan, thousands extra on wifi smart dimmers, 10k on a range, $100k on a detached garage then try to save by using AL wire, poor quality box store plumbing shutoffs and fixtures, skimp on footings and concrete, use cheap roofing, undersized the septic..
Invest in the essential items, wire, plumbing, foundation, roof. Cut back on luxury items not wire.
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That is because the $1200 fan they can show off to their friends can't see the plumbing , wiring or roof.
 
WD40 said:
then try to save by using AL wire
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I have seen no evidence that there are any issues with the alloy of aluminum that has been used since the mid 70s.
I was an apprentice when the new alloy came on the market in 10 and 12 AWG. It was only on the market in those sizes for a few years because it could not overcome the reputation of the old 15 and 20 amp aluminum conductors.
In that time frame the company I worked for did an apartment complex of about 100 units using single conductor new alloy aluminum in EMT and CO/ALR wiring devices. We did the service work on that complex for a couple of decades and there were no more problems there than in other apartment complexes that we had done in copper.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I have seen no evidence that there are any issues with the alloy of aluminum that has been used since the mid 70s.
I was an apprentice when the new alloy came on the market in 10 and 12 AWG. It was only on the market in those sizes for a few years because it could not overcome the reputation of the old 15 and 20 amp aluminum conductors.
In that time frame the company I worked for did an apartment complex of about 100 units using single conductor new alloy aluminum in EMT and CO/ALR wiring devices. We did the service work on that complex for a couple of decades and there were no more problems there than in other apartment complexes that we had done in copper.
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Ive seen lots of poorly installed range receptacles on al ser and no issue. It's only when bad install and cheap receptacle and EVs come together.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I have seen no evidence that there are any issues with the alloy of aluminum that has been used since the mid 70s.
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Yeah well did not happen here the URD they sell is still the old 1350 alloy, so no new alloy for URD at least, and I know people are not supposed use the scrap piece to go from the meter to the main but come on they do.
but aside form that its like paying to fly first class then spending your vacation in a 1 star motel.
curt swartz said:
As far as foundation, septic and things like that in my area they all get engineered and inspected so can't really cheap out.
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Yeah thats good perhaps I work around too many cheep skate builders, they do all kinds of tricks to under size the septic and am not really sure why, there is some sizing rule on number of bedrooms, so they do stuff like calling a bedroom an 'office'.
With the foundations they try to get away with 6" instead of 8", again not sure why, I have done some work for a foundation repair outfit they explained it and it went over my head.
 
WD40 said:
Yeah well did not happen here the URD they sell is still the old 1350 alloy, so no new alloy for URD at least,
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If it is made for the utilities it will be 1350. If it is USE without any additional marking, it is permitted to be either alloy. If it is USE with an dual rating, it is required to be the 8000 series alloy.
 
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