copper v alum. service

[formula1]

the great debate copper v alum. in underground service, to me no contest alum. sucks your opinions please

 

[frizbeedog]

the great debate copper v alum. in underground service, to me no contest alum. sucks your opinions please

Alum. works fine.

Underground? Keep the cover good or install in conduit.

Price or size.



Just a thought...When have you seen the serving utility installing copper?

 

[Buck Parrish]

Al comes in more variations of cables. Such as direct burial.
It's cheaper.
It has been tested and is code compliant.

It's the connections that suck. Esspecially on continuous circuits.
I don't use it on my ac's , range's or water heater's.
I will use it on services and sub panels.

 

[quogueelectric]

It is fine when terminated properly. This was always a big problem of improper use by unqualified persons.

 

[celtic]

It's the connections that suck. Esspecially on continuous circuits.
I don't use it on my ac's , range's or water heater's.
I will use it on services and sub panels.

:-?

Don't those mains/subs have the continuous loads from the BCs you don't do w/AL?

 

[brantmacga]

:-?

Don't those mains/subs have the continuous loads from the BCs you don't do w/AL?

of course not; if they did, that comment wouldn't make sense.

 

[TOOL_5150]

Uh oh Did I hear a slap of common sence?

~Matt

 

[Buck Parrish]

:-?

Don't those mains/subs have the continuous loads from the BCs you don't do w/AL?

Yeah the main does.
I try to keep the load to a minimal on my sub panels.
Its the smaller circuits that give the most problems dedicated or branch.

 

[Fulthrotl]

:-?

Don't those mains/subs have the continuous loads from the BCs you don't do w/AL?

from what my experience has been with aluminum, the problem is not
continuous loads, it is varying loads, that cause expansion and contraction
of the wire, loosening the terminations.

randy

 

[bphgravity]

In my experience, I have seen no evidence either way to support or condemn the use of copper or aluminum for service conductors.

I feel it is purely a design choice based on cost verses weight.

 

[electricmanscott]

the great debate copper v alum. in underground service, to me no contest alum. sucks your opinions please

My opinion? Your opinion is wrong. :smile:

 

[tkb]

So why does aluminum suck for services?

Let's see... The POCO will use AL in their transmission lines to the substations, then distribute it through the distribution lines to the transformers on the poles, then use an aluminum lateral to the house.

In the house the meter socket will have aluminum lugs, and the panel will have aluminum buss.

So what advantage is there to a short piece of copper in this system at the house to go from the aluminum wire from the POCO to the aluminum panel buss?

I don't buy it!!

 

[charlie]

Copper is more forgiving than aluminum

Copper is more forgiving than aluminum

Actually, copper is more forgiving than aluminum.​

As stated before, if aluminum is terminated correctly, there is no problem. However a poor connection, rough handling, kinking the conductors, overloading the conductors, 'ringing' the conductors while stripping for terminations, incorrect torquing of the connectors, etc. will cause failures with aluminum conductors and cables. Given the same circumstances, copper will probably forgive you and you will have no problems with the installation. The bottom line is that you have to take the time to do the installations correctly where you are using aluminum because it will not forgive you for shoddy work.

Electric utilities had a multitude of problems when the shift was made from copper to aluminum for the distribution lines and secondaries. With a lot of training (and finger pointing), we got the construction and maintenance people on board and aluminum has treated us very well.

 

[satcom]

So why does aluminum suck for services?

Let's see... The POCO will use AL in their transmission lines to the substations, then distribute it through the distribution lines to the transformers on the poles, then use an aluminum lateral to the house.

In the house the meter socket will have aluminum lugs, and the panel will have aluminum buss.

So what advantage is there to a short piece of copper in this system at the house to go from the aluminum wire from the POCO to the aluminum panel buss?

I don't buy it!!

So what advantage is there to a short piece of copper in this system?

Only that copper can be slopped in, and Aluminum has to be installed with care.

 

[iwire]

So what advantage is there to a short piece of copper in this system?

Only that copper can be slopped in, and Aluminum has to be installed with care.

We are not talking rocket science here, if someone calls themselves an electrician they better darn well know how to terminate 600 volt or less conductors of either type.

 

[sparky59]

aluminum conductors are trouble free when properly sized and terminated correctly. I always clean the ends with a wire brush, apply no-ox, and tighten with a torque wrench to specs.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Ok, a little help here. Why is copper less forgiving than aluminum? My company just got awarded a project and we actually got aluminum stabaloid cable approved when we had copper in the estimate. Maybe I can give some tips to the our engineers( although I am sure the field guys are aware they have to be more careful about terminations etc. with aluminum) regarding aluminum. Come on guys make me look good.....lol.

Thanks.

 

[celtic]

OCome on guys make me look good.....

Just remember AL is generally 2 sizes larger than CU....it may not matter now...but it might when you try and terminate on larger CBs.
Check the lug sizes now as opposed to "later".

 

[boboelectric]

You want copper,you get copper.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Good point Celtic....... So if you had a CB/lug sized for 8's you could not terminate #6 or 4's??