Cord Connected Equipment Above Accoustical Ceiling

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ramIII

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Location
virginia
We are doing a high school renovation. In the classrooms they show an amplifier for the video equipment above the accoustical ceiling with a note on the drawing to either install an outlet for the equipment or hardwire. We can't install an outlet because that would violate 400.8(5). We can't hard wire because removing the cord assembly violates the warranty and also there is no practical way to install a flex connector to hard wire.
The electrical engineer for the project contacted the inspector about this to come up with a solution and his response was to install per code. He said his job was to inspect not to design. As the electrical contractor on the project we were asked to try to come up with a solution. One thought I have is to install an enclosure of some sort with the receptacle and all equipment mounted inside. This would still be above the ceiling but would be enclosed seperately in the ceiling. Another thought would be to install an enclosure with a flush cover on the ceiling tile with all the equipment and receptacle mounted inside where access would only be from below ceiling. I think this would meet the code and not be considered above the ceiling. Any thought or ideas.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
Don't know what video equipment has been spec'd but for projectors for instance there are amps that mount to the projector support below the ceiling just to eliminate this problem. I agree that this is a design issue and a competent video system designer should know what equipment is available to comply with the NEC in this respect. This is certainly nothing new.

Edit to add-
Another thought would be to install an enclosure with a flush cover on the ceiling tile with all the equipment and receptacle mounted inside where access would only be from below ceiling.

I actually think that is available. Cover swings down with everything mounted to it for easy access.

-Hal
 
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don_resqcapt19

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Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
The question becomes: "is the cord that is part of equipment covered by the rules in the NEC?". There was an fairly extensive debate on this issue sometime back, but I can't find the thread now. I don't believe any consensus was reached on the question.
 

GoldDigger

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Location
Placerville, CA, USA
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Retired PV System Designer
Don't know what video equipment has been spec'd but for projectors for instance there are amps that mount to the projector support below the ceiling just to eliminate this problem. I agree that this is a design issue and a competent video system designer should know what equipment is available to comply with the NEC in this respect. This is certainly nothing new.

Edit to add-

I actually think that is available. Cover swings down with everything mounted to it for easy access.

-Hal
FWIW, many of the projectors that I see are permanently suspended below the ceiling and plugged into an outlet box attached to the platform the projector rests on. I think that box is wired with flex.
Others are similar except that the whole base plate is attached to lift hardware that raises it up flush with the ceiling. At that point the cord is above the ceiling, but the equipment is not in use. Apparently at least some AHJs do not have a problem with that.
 

cowboyjwc

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Location
Simi Valley, CA
I agree with Don that we never did come to an agreement. Some believed that a cord is a cord and others believed that if it was a piece of equipment it was OK.

I''m of the school that a cord is a cord.

I would check with the AHJ and see what school he went to.:happyyes:
 

raider1

Senior Member
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Location
Logan, Utah
I agree with Don that we never did come to an agreement. Some believed that a cord is a cord and others believed that if it was a piece of equipment it was OK.

I''m of the school that a cord is a cord.

I would check with the AHJ and see what school he went to.:happyyes:

I too believe that Article 400 applies to cords that are part of equipment.

Chris
 

jtinge

Senior Member
Location
Hampton, VA
Occupation
Sr. Elec. Engr
I too believe that Article 400 applies to cords that are part of equipment.

Chris

From the thread I referenced previously, see the text of Mike Holt's post regarding the applicability of Article 400 to Flexible Cords and Power Supply Cords below:

"Flexible Cords [UL 62] per Article 400 is not a listed Power Supply Cord [UL817]
Let's just simply follow the Code, Article 400 applies to 'flexible cords and flexible cables' as listed in Table 400.4, which are constructed per UL 62. The rules in Article 400 only apply to 'flexible cords and flexible cables,' they don't apply to 'power supply cords' since power supply cords are constructed per UL 817 and this projduct doesn't fall within the scope of the article or the NEC."
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
From the thread I referenced previously, see the text of Mike Holt's post regarding the applicability of Article 400 to Flexible Cords and Power Supply Cords below:

"Flexible Cords [UL 62] per Article 400 is not a listed Power Supply Cord [UL817]
Let's just simply follow the Code, Article 400 applies to 'flexible cords and flexible cables' as listed in Table 400.4, which are constructed per UL 62. The rules in Article 400 only apply to 'flexible cords and flexible cables,' they don't apply to 'power supply cords' since power supply cords are constructed per UL 817 and this projduct doesn't fall within the scope of the article or the NEC."

I have read that and I happen to disagree that cords built under UL 817 do not fall under Article 400.

Power supply cords under UL 817 are typically constructed from flexible cord constructed under UL 62. Just because we put a molded cord cap on a power supply cord does not change the fact that the power supply cord is constructed from a flexible cord.

Chris
 

jumper

Senior Member
I have read that and I happen to disagree that cords built under UL 817 do not fall under Article 400.

Power supply cords under UL 817 are typically constructed from flexible cord constructed under UL 62. Just because we put a molded cord cap on a power supply cord does not change the fact that the power supply cord is constructed from a flexible cord.

Chris

I agree with the headbanger.:)

But it sure would have been nice if that exception proposal had passed the 2014 ROC stage.
 
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