Cord hung lights and EGC

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bjp_ne_elec

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My question is - is there a way to accomadate an EGC on older cord hungs? The porcelin socket ends up in a metal tube that is stainless, and a glass tube is affixed to the bottom of the tube. All this metal, and I'm figuring it's got to be grounded.

Thanks

Brett
 
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bjp_ne_elec said:
Jim - there is a UL label, but who knows when the label went on. I'm thinking these things may be 20 - 25 years old.
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I am thinking more like 50 or 60 .Will they loop thru a chain ? If so i would buy some of this wire from a lighting store.Land it under a lug on fixture and run it with the other wires.
 
I can rewire - I quess what I'm looking for clairication is "can I legally". I think my concern may be more UL related than NEC. I had the guys tell me in the supply house - "I never have seen a porcelin socket with a ground" - well I'm looking for a procelin socket, but would envision the ground (EGC) going to the bracket that holds the porcelin socket. Thought there may be one out there with a green screw - providing an "approved" grounding lug.


I've attached a sketch to give you an idea.

Thanks

Brett
 
bjp_ne_elec said:
My question is - is there a way to accomadate an EGC on older cord hungs? The porcelin socket ends up in a metal tube that is stainless, and a glass tube is affixed to the bottom of the tube. All this metal, and I'm figuring it's got to be grounded.

Thanks

Brett
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Look for the listing. This is no difference that and a standard lamp. It has lots of metal and no EGC in the cord.
 
Sparkzilla - any of the lights that had any metal parts all where shown with 3-prong grounded plug ends on the cord - and you're showing work lamps for another.

Pipemaster - what do you mean "look for the listing"? There is a UL sticker, but that covers it's original configuration.

Brett
 
bjp_ne_elec said:
I can rewire - I quess what I'm looking for clairication is "can I legally". I think my concern may be more UL related than NEC. I had the guys tell me in the supply house - "I never have seen a porcelin socket with a ground" - well I'm looking for a procelin socket, but would envision the ground (EGC) going to the bracket that holds the porcelin socket. Thought there may be one out there with a green screw - providing an "approved" grounding lug.


I've attached a sketch to give you an idea.

Thanks

Brett
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seen your sketch. seems like you would need to change the cord and socket and just use the housing. can you ??? or must you use porcelin?? am checking a few things for you.
 
Brett, looking at your sketch, I don't believe the bands at the bottom of the glass would need to be bonded. I'm looking at 410.18(A).

(A) Exposed Conductive Parts. Exposed metal parts shall be grounded or insulated from ground and other conducting surfaces or be inaccessible to unqualified personnel. Lamp tie wires, mounting screws, clips, and decorative bands on glass spaced at least 38 mm (1 1 /2 in.) from lamp terminals shall not be required to be grounded.
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I would not worry about violating the listing, if it were about adding a EGC to the luminaire, IMO. (I would bond the body of the fixture, and not worry about the listing part.)
 
bjp_ne_elec said:
Sparkzilla - any of the lights that had any metal parts all where shown with 3-prong grounded plug ends on the cord - and you're showing work lamps for another.

Pipemaster - what do you mean "look for the listing"? There is a UL sticker, but that covers it's original configuration.

Brett
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Then you can not change it at all without having it relisted/tested. Any changes to a listed item would violate the listing
 
georgestolz said:
Brett, looking at your sketch, I don't believe the bands at the bottom of the glass would need to be bonded. I'm looking at 410.18(A).



I would not worry about violating the listing, if it were about adding a EGC to the luminaire, IMO. (I would bond the body of the fixture, and not worry about the listing part.)
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Thats not good, you should worry about violating listed equipment.
 
Since when are you not allowed to ground any exposed metallic parts that are likely to become energized?

My opinion...
If the customer wants that particular light fixture, put it up.
If it needs grounding, ground it.
I may get flamed for saying that, but that's what I would do.
Common sense has got to play a part in the equation.
It's only a light fixture, you're not re-wiring the microwave.

410.17 General..."Luminaries and lighting equipment shall be grounded as required in article 250 and Part V of this article".
250.112...Exposed non-current carrying metal parts of the kind of equipment described in 250.112(A) thru (K), and non-current carrying metal parts of equipment and enclosures described in 250.112(L) and (M), shall be grounded regardless of voltage.
250.112(L)...Luminaries (Lighting Fixtures) as provided in part V of Article 410.

I can just see one of my customers when I tell them that I can't install their antique light fixture because it doesn't have a grounding wire and I can't install one because it would void the UL sticker (if it even has one).
They would tell me thank you (maybe) and show me the door.

How would that violate a listing anyway, you're just following a requirement of the electrical code.
Not grounding the fixture has the potential for causing you more trouble than adding a ground if someone gets shocked because you didn't ground it.
I personally would replace any defective conductors and lamp sockets, add a grounding conductor and install the fixture.
Just my opinion, others may vary.
steve
 
Does an old ul sticker have a limited time on it ? What if it has one but is 50 years old ? Does it still comply ? OK turning you loose on this one,i will be back in a week or 200 replies LOL
 
hillbilly said:
If the customer wants that particular light fixture, put it up.
If it needs grounding, ground it.
I may get flamed for saying that, but that's what I would do.
Common sense has got to play a part in the equation.
It's only a light fixture, you're not re-wiring the microwave.
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Ditto. That was my thinking exactly. I'll share the flame with you. :)
 
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