Cord sets above drop ceiling

[jcleavit]

Not to bring this up again but I could not find an answer to my specific application anywhere in the forum. What I am trying to do is put a wireless access in the drop ceiling of a hospital. 400.12(5) prevents me from doing this but I was hoping to house the equipment in a box to try to get around this section. My drop ceiling is NOT a plenum as we have return ducts. Does the Exception to (5) apply to me or is it only to plenums specified in 300.22(C)(3)? I understood the exception to be telling me what type of enclosure I need to use, not what type of ceiling I am in(hopefully this is not just wishful thinking).

Any thoughts?

 

[2Broke2Sleep]

400.12? Year??

I have put WAP above drop ceilings before no problem. Is the issue you're referring to the use of a cord? If so then you're right as far as FLEXIBLE cords go, but if it's a power-supply cord (coming from the manufacturer of the WAP) then it's not within the scope of the code and therefore permitted.....

 

[jcleavit]

I am being called on the 2014 Code but I am wanting to make my installation compliant with the 2017 to prevent future problems. We get inspected every three years so they would just make me comply then anyway. In 2017 NEC, 400.12 changed to include "flexible cord sets, and power supply cords". In ten years when all our WAP's are upgraded to POE this will not be a problem but for right now I need to upgrade this system to appease this inspector.

 

[Chamuit]

For clarity, are you plugging in the LV power supply for the WAP into a receptacle right beside the unit?

I looked in 840 and it doesn't seem to address this.

 

[cowboyjwc]

400.12? Year??

I have put WAP above drop ceilings before no problem. Is the issue you're referring to the use of a cord? If so then you're right as far as FLEXIBLE cords go, but if it's a power-supply cord (coming from the manufacturer of the WAP) then it's not within the scope of the code and therefore permitted.....

Well you're not always going to win that argument. 400.8 doesn't make have any exception for power supply cords.

 

[jcleavit]

What I have is basically just a receptacle above a drop ceiling. I have a power manufacturer supplied power supply cord plugged in feeding the WAP. As far as I can tell, 400.12(5) does not permit this due to the 2017 wording change. What I was wondering is if I can get around this section by installing the receptacle/WAP in a PVC j-box in the ceiling so that it is not exposed to damage in the drop ceiling. The Exception to 5 is not really that clear to me in that I am having a hard time understanding if it applies to my situation. BTW I could not find section 400.8 in the 2017 book. Did they take this out? Also it seems like 400.1 scope was expanded due to a UL change per the informational note.

 

[2Broke2Sleep]

My guess is that as long as you use a metal raceway in the plenum space it would pass. To be honest I don't have the 2017 codebook so I'm not much help here. Seems to be a waste of space just to enclose a power supply cord...

 

[cowboyjwc]

My guess is that as long as you use a metal raceway in the plenum space it would pass. To be honest I don't have the 2017 codebook so I'm not much help here. Seems to be a waste of space just to enclose a power supply cord...

It's not a plenum space, the code simply says that a flexible cord cannot be located above suspended or dropped ceilings.

 

[kwired]

Well you're not always going to win that argument. 400.8 doesn't make have any exception for power supply cords.

Art 400 also applies to cord types mentioned in table 400.4. I'd bet nearly every cord that comes off a wall wart power supply isn't a type covered in table 400.4 - time to get rid of them in all locations not just above dropped ceilings I guess, or say they are covered by listing.

 

[jcleavit]

It's not a plenum space, the code simply says that a flexible cord cannot be located above suspended or dropped ceilings.

It does say that it can't be above the drop ceiling in 400.12(5) but the Exception to 5 ​is what is making this rule not so simple for me.

 

[cowboyjwc]

It does say that it can't be above the drop ceiling in 400.12(5) but the Exception to 5 ​is what is making this rule not so simple for me.

What book are you in? I don't have a 400.12 in mine.

 

[Johnnybob]

What book are you in? I don't have a 400.12 in mine.

2017 NEC 400.12 uses not permitted.

 

[hbiss]

I could be wrong but isn't Washington State on the 2014 cycle?

-Hal

 

[jcleavit]

I could be wrong but isn't Washington State on the 2014 cycle?

-Hal

It probably is. My problem is I am in a hospital that gets inspected every 3 years. If I don't fix it now I will on the next inspection. Too big of a building to keep going back and updating if I can avoid it. I think I solved my problem though. I am just going to make the IT guy put his WAP inside of electrical rooms and data rooms so they are not above the ceiling at all. Thanks though

 

[hbiss]

So what are they going to do? Go around and update everything to the current code each time the inspector comes around? It doesn't work that way.:happysad:

-Hal

 

[kwired]

So what are they going to do? Go around and update everything to the current code each time the inspector comes around? It doesn't work that way.:happysad:

-Hal

The "legal" electrical AHJ normally doesn't work that way. Some other entity, like an inspector from an insurance provider can certainly tell them they need to update things to current codes or be penalized in premium or even denied coverage.

 

[augie47]

I recall M.H. has interesting input on this. An example is this paragraph from one of his Newsletters:
Article 400 requirements apply only to flexible cords [UL 62]. Power supply cords [UL 817] don’t fall within the scope of Article 400, so you can run a power supply cord through a cabinet wall for an appliance. You can also run a power supply cord through, or locate it above, a suspended ceiling.
(You can find more by a "search of 'cord sets' in Mike's Newsletter section on the Home page)

The subject is indeed controversial and before I took that approach I'd discuss it with your AHJ.

 

[jcleavit]

I recall M.H. has interesting input on this. An example is this paragraph from one of his Newsletters:
Article 400 requirements apply only to flexible cords [UL 62]. Power supply cords [UL 817] don’t fall within the scope of Article 400, so you can run a power supply cord through a cabinet wall for an appliance. You can also run a power supply cord through, or locate it above, a suspended ceiling.
(You can find more by a "search of 'cord sets' in Mike's Newsletter section on the Home page)

The subject is indeed controversial and before I took that approach I'd discuss it with your AHJ.

Look at the infomational note to the scope of article 400 in 2017. I think they may include them now. I'm not dealing with a typical inspector situation. It's an outside company that evaluates the building every three years to see how much we can charge for Medicaid and Medicare patients. They also inspect things like cleanliness and patient record keeping