Corner Ground Delta

Don't forget a 3 pole fused switch with an actual "dummy fuse" installed in the grounded phase. Just not a field fabricated one.
I worked on an old Dow plant that was originally supplied by an ungrounded service. All of their MCCs used fuses as the OCPD. When it was converted to a corner grounded system, actual "dummy fuses" were installed in all of the buckets.
 
I apologize, there are three ways to go if I understand MIke's YouTube videos on corner grounded delta systems: 1. If you want to switch the neutral you use a three pole breaker 2. Use a two pole breaker and run the grounded conductor straight through 3. Use a two pole fused disconnect run the grounded conductor straight through.
(1) Substitute word "netural" with grounded conductor for the corner grounded system.
I've got several!!! Who wants one?
Which, the dummy or the fuse?
 
Something must have got lost in translation, or they are an item restricted to authorized dealers.

30 years ago, when I was in the distribution business, we stocked the 30A version.
Yeah much less expensive I believe.

I always felt like they should be fastened in somehow. Lessen the possibility of someone removing it and putting it in the wrong phase
 
Actually I haven't seen a corner ground system since I left the Philly area 11 years ago. And most I saw down there were on old 3 wire 2 phase systems

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I have heard corner ground 480 Delta was used up here in the mines, but I've never come across one of those systems
 
Actually I haven't seen a corner ground system since I left the Philly area 11 years ago. And most I saw down there were on old 3 wire 2 phase systems

View attachment 2579128

I have heard corner ground 480 Delta was used up here in the mines, but I've never come across one of those systems
I would just call that 3-wire two phase not corner grounded, I have never seen a 3-wire two phase system in Philly only a 5-wire 240/120V, however I don't doubt you saw one.
It would be cool to document via video tour some of these uncommon old systems that are still running today while they are still around. The last corner ground service here I know of was converted to wye recently.
The 5-wire two phase still has some modern day uses like balancing two large single phase loads that must be 120/240 split phase.

I think kwired nailed it when he commented that
one the more common places to see a corner ground on something rather new would be if it is separately derived on site from a back fed delta-wye transformer where you have no neutral on the delta side of the transformer. Most the time such setups are feeding specific load and not so much a general distribution system at a facility.
 
The 3 wire was less common on the secondary side. Most customers wanted power and light from one pair of transformers. But 3 wire was common on the primary (Medium Voltage) side. Kind of a funky setup because the blue conductor carried 1.41 times the current so it was usually heavier

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All of what you see in philly has a Scott-T somewhere. I think they stopped generating power as 2 phase in like 1930. Amazing it's still around. I think the last large 2 phase system I worked on was the Youth Study Center and that was in 2002 or 2003
 
If the NEC code is supposed to be about life and safety why haven't they outlawed the corner ground delta system?
What is unsafe about it? The only thing I see is problems when unqualified people work on it.
You could submit a Pubic Input to make changes for the 2029 code. The system should open for the submission of public inputs sometime early next year. You will need a solid technical substantiation to show that corner grounded system is unsafe.
 
The 3 wire was less common on the secondary side. Most customers wanted power and light from one pair of transformers. But 3 wire was common on the primary (Medium Voltage) side. Kind of a funky setup because the blue conductor carried 1.41 times the current so it was usually heavier

View attachment 2579131

All of what you see in philly has a Scott-T somewhere. I think they stopped generating power as 2 phase in like 1930. Amazing it's still around. I think the last large 2 phase system I worked on was the Youth Study Center and that was in 2002 or 2003
They're used for running huge motors from single phase motors in SWER setup fed from a three phase grid. I'm talking several megawatt size motors.

 
I apologize, there are three ways to go if I understand MIke's YouTube videos on corner grounded delta systems: 1. If you want to switch the neutral you use a three pole breaker 2. Use a two pole breaker and run the grounded conductor straight through 3. Use a two pole fused disconnect run the grounded conductor straight through.
Correction on 1. If you want to switch the grounded conductor you use a three pole breaker/switch/contactor.

There is no neutral on this system.
 
I would just call that 3-wire two phase not corner grounded, I have never seen a 3-wire two phase system in Philly only a 5-wire 240/120V, however I don't doubt you saw one.
It would be cool to document via video tour some of these uncommon old systems that are still running today while they are still around. The last corner ground service here I know of was converted to wye recently.
The 5-wire two phase still has some modern day uses like balancing two large single phase loads that must be 120/240 split phase.

I think kwired nailed it when he commented that
The rural utility company I work around the most doesn't have any corner ground systems that I am aware of. They made an effort back in the 80's maybe into the 90's to eliminate all of them. Many irrigation services had such a supply. This was a cooperative and publicly owned utility (still is) and part of the benefits of such ownership was they would bring the service conductors out to the equipment served. With irrigation it often was maybe 1500 feet from the source. They didn't do it for free but were doing it for less than any contractor would charge to do the same thing. Little story to understand the situation here. The problem they created when they decided to get rid of corner ground delta was you needed a fourth conductor. Most those long runs I mentioned they buried a fourth individual conductor in the neighborhood of 10 to 20 feet away from the other three for most of the run. This not only creates more impedance during a fault condition but a problem I have run into in more recent years is when locate requests come in for other excavating this fourth grounded conductor doesn't get located and the excavator plows through it not knowing they hit it. I happened to find this when I was locating a underground problem with one of the ungrounded conductors one time more recently. In that process I discovered the grounded conductor was lost as well. End result was it was about 10-15 feet from the other conductors so I knew it was likely a system converted from corner ground delta, the break was right where a fiber line had been plowed in maybe 10 years earlier. My best guess they located the ungrounded conductors using simple 60 Hertz detection function of a locator and had no idea the grounded conductor was not in same vicinity so it was never marked. Makes me wonder how many other of those done like that had been compromised because of other excavation activity and failure to locate said grounded conductor.
 
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