Correct connection

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K8MHZ said:
Years ago, I posted that all wirenuts weren't the same, and how much better the Tan Twisters were than others. I got called something like a 'snob' or 'elitist' or something of the like.

Well, now the subject is up again, but this time I see my 'snobbery' is shared by others here.

The Ideal red and yellow wingnut types are very soft and I have seen wires come poking out the end with not much effort.

Off brands just don't 'bite' and are more work than they are worth.
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Got a multi-pack of CE wirenuts about a month ago. twist, twist, twist, then the tension let up. metal coil wrung out of it. I did this with 5 more nuts out of that pack (red, tan, yellow) before giving up, reusing the old, and tossing the rest of the new ones in the trash. Im not He-Man and this was on two 14 ga solid wires. Never seen wires poke through.



mgookin said:
What's your favorite wirenut for joining 2 or 3 #14 wires and why?
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A Yellow Ideal B-Cap or Twister because it's physically smaller (eta: than a tan or red) and easier to shove into an old box that is probably overloaded anyway.
 
peter d said:
:roll:

I think the vast majority of us who have done electrical work for any length of time have whole stranded/solid in wirenuts thing under control. This is really, really basic stuff here. :thumbsup:
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I think the proper way to install a wire nut was one of the first things I learned. It really is important but I think some people skipped that lesson as they don't think it's very important.

I admit I get a lot of work because people don't make proper splices or connections.
 
For this to be a proper Mike Holt forum debate, we need to figure out how many actual strands it takes to get the wire connector to spin off without biting, and we need field measurements on the dimensions and circular mil area of all wire and connectors involved.
 
#12 to #16 stranded is definitely a yellow, either a hard wirenut or expanding spring type 3M Skotchlok. A tan Ranger is too big.

You cannot pay the $150. You have to know how the law would apply and follow it consistently.

Paying for the damages is an admission of guilt that you did something wrong. You are assuming liability for yourself and your insurer. Your insurer will tell you to not do that on their behalf, to tell them and let them decide if they are liable. Does not matter how much money it is. What matters is the insurer trusts you as their business partner to follow their rules. You do not pay for damages and admit guilt on their behalf.

Also, for the owner to claim damages against you for this, they are obligated to ask you to fix it yourself first or for you to make the arrangements to fix it. Since they brought someone else in first, you are off the hook for the charge.

I don't see it as goodwill. If you don't know to use a yellow when all you have is a red, they should call someone else. If that's the only mistake you made all year and took steps to see it would never happen again, they should call you for all their work. Spend the $150 on your own gas and groceries so you can be ready if and when they call.

To come off sounding good, you could say you would have been happy to check it out and fix it at no cost, only if you found it was your fault. You did not have the opportunity to find that it was your fault. (could be total BS on the color of the wirenut, the repair guy could have brought his own red) Next time advise them to call you first for either the free repair if your fault or the service call charge if not.
 
__dan said:
#12 to #16 stranded is definitely a yellow, either a hard wirenut or expanding spring type 3M Skotchlok. A tan Ranger is too big.

You cannot pay the $150. You have to know how the law would apply and follow it consistently.

Paying for the damages is an admission of guilt that you did something wrong. You are assuming liability for yourself and your insurer. Your insurer will tell you to not do that on their behalf, to tell them and let them decide if they are liable. Does not matter how much money it is. What matters is the insurer trusts you as their business partner to follow their rules. You do not pay for damages and admit guilt on their behalf.

Also, for the owner to claim damages against you for this, they are obligated to ask you to fix it yourself first or for you to make the arrangements to fix it. Since they brought someone else in first, you are off the hook for the charge.

I don't see it as goodwill. If you don't know to use a yellow when all you have is a red, they should call someone else. If that's the only mistake you made all year and took steps to see it would never happen again, they should call you for all their work. Spend the $150 on your own gas and groceries so you can be ready if and when they call.

To come off sounding good, you could say you would have been happy to check it out and fix it at no cost, only if you found it was your fault. You did not have the opportunity to find that it was your fault. (could be total BS on the color of the wirenut, the repair guy could have brought his own red) Next time advise them to call you first for either the free repair if your fault or the service call charge if not.
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I can not argue with any of this, all very logical and well thought out.

But I would pay the $150 even if it was wrong to do so
 
mgookin said:
What's your favorite wirenut for joining 2 or 3 #14 wires and why?
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My go to wirenuts are the Buchanan (Ideal) "B Caps". They're what I stock on the truck. For Mike's question, the 2 or 3 #14 - The Yellow Buchanan B1.
K8MHZ said:
The Ideal red and yellow wingnut types are very soft and I have seen wires come poking out the end with not much effort.
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Marky, I agree with this observation. It is one of the liabilities of them. The Buchanan B Caps come with a driver that can be slipped into a screw gun or driver and, if allowed to twist until the driver loads to a stop, will almost always force the top of the conductors through the top of the B Cap. Workmanship.
 
readydave8 said:
I can not argue with any of this, all very logical and well thought out.

But I would pay the $150 even if it was wrong to do so
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What is the standard warranty on installs/repairs? I would not pay the $150, I would have gone to investigate the problem had the HO called me first.

are low end appliances even repaired anymore outside of a warranty? iow, had the problem been inside the machine, certainly 2 years is beyond a standard warranty. are machine problems rather than power/connection problems more prevalent with dishwashers and the like, so thats why the HO calls appliance guy rather than an electrician?
 
SheppardJ said:
The homeowner, even though done 2 years ago wants reimbursement for the service call of $150.
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readydave8 said:
I would pay the $150 even if it was wrong to do so
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If this is a regular customer maybe. If you give a lifetime warranty then it would be required.

The appliance guy said the red wire nut caused the problem how do we know he is the first person to work on this dishwasher for some reason.

I once got a call on a receptacle. The wires were were turned the wrong way on the terminals (something I never do ) and the receptacle box and all had been moved by someone other than myself. I explained that warranty only covers items that I install and have not been tampered with by others. I think the homeowner had the GC or one of his guys move it.
 
edward said:
I would explain to the client that it was a workmanship issue not connector issue. In fact show the client the proper wire nut that can be used and change the orange one that the repair person installed and install the correct one.

Accept the poor workmanship and pay the $150 and they will call you for more work.
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At this point I wouldn't touch it. The appliance repair person was the last to touch it so now he is the one who "owns" it.

-Hal
 
peter d said:
A "redhead"? :? I assume this is a term for a red wire nut? A "redhead" almost always refers to an anti-short bushing for metal cables.

As for the original problem, it sounds like it was a poor connection in the first place due to installer error as opposed to improper connector size.
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Not an improper connector size but just not wire butted tight or the dishwasher is not on a dedicated circuit. Make certain it's fed by itself and if so I strongly believe the wire nut wasn't connected tightly and it arched until the heat overcame the wire nut.


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elrod96 said:
Not an improper connector size but just not wire butted tight or the dishwasher is not on a dedicated circuit. Make certain it's fed by itself and if so I strongly believe the wire nut wasn't connected tightly and it arched until the heat overcame the wire nut.


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I agree the wirenut/connection was probably not tight, but having the dishwasher on a separate/individual circuit would not have prevented the OP's problem.
 
SheppardJ said:
My building contractor called Ideal and they told him that they do not make anything that meets UL specs for this connection. It's a #12 solid to a #16 stranded?
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The catalog table for their push-in connectors. The only requirement is you strip the wires without nicking the strands and insert them until they bottom out to the back. When you call you put them to recall from memory. When you ask for a written response they're not pressure to respond on the spot and more likely to check before responding.

#20 – #12 solid
Stranded #16 – #12 (19 strand or less)
#18 (7 strand)
Stranded Tin-Bonded #18 – #14 (19 strand or)
 
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