Cost of MC cable vs. pipe (please help an engineer out)

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donw

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This is a two part question for you contractors from me (an engineer who knows little about costs.) I had a plans reviewer tell me today that running conduit is a lot less expensive than MC cable. I have trouble believing this. Maybe materials are less, but the labor has to put conduit over the top. So my first question is regarding typical commercial jobs, which is usually less expensive?

Part 2. In a medical job (not hospital) in patient care areas, is running UL listed medical grade cable less or more expensive than running conduit with the insulated ground. I've had many contractors ask if I would spec. cable, so I have always believed it was less expensive.
 
donw said:
This is a two part question for you contractors from me (an engineer who knows little about costs.) I had a plans reviewer tell me today that running conduit is a lot less expensive than MC cable. I have trouble believing this. Maybe materials are less, but the labor has to put conduit over the top. So my first question is regarding typical commercial jobs, which is usually less expensive?

Part 2. In a medical job (not hospital) in patient care areas, is running UL listed medical grade cable less or more expensive than running conduit with the insulated ground. I've had many contractors ask if I would spec. cable, so I have always believed it was less expensive.
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What are the job conditions, that will play a big part in the selection of method used.

Try talking to a seasoned electrical estimator, not a plan reviewer, give all the job conditions and complete detail plan sets, there is no simple answer, every project will differ.
 
I can only address Part One, and that only from my experience in one recent project. I was asked to compare costs (material plus labor) for conduit & wire versus MC cable, in the context of branch circuit feeders (i.e., from distribution panels to branch circuit panels). What I recall is that the MC method was significantly cheaper, mostly due to the cost of installing conduit.
 
There is no doubt in my mind what-so-ever that MC cable for both general use and hospital grade use is much less expensive than EMT. Possibly in the range of 200% more expensive with conduit verses cable.
 
The material cost of MC is greater than wire in conduit, but so much labor is saved that the MC ends up being a good bit cheaper overall.

I had an electrical contractor try to switch to MC on a job that he had bid as conduit and wire. At that time and location, I told him he had to give me $3 back for every foot that he changed. He ran the conduit, but only because I kept checking on him to make sure. He would have ran MC and then put the walls up to cover it if I had let him. He wasn't a model of good ethics. :mad:
 
Charlie, thanks for that info. Was it also cheaper for branch circuits, too?

The project in question is a skilled nursing facility. It is approximately 45K s.f., single story - really spread out. I'm going to use 480V service. I will have a generator to run life safety and critical branches. Owner says that the rooms are not patient care areas, but he wants one receptacle on generator.
 
donw said:
I had a plans reviewer tell me today that running conduit is a lot less expensive than MC cable. So my first question is regarding typical commercial jobs, which is usually less expensive?
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The best and cheapest way is to use a combination of EMT and MC cable as needed. Leave the job specs. open to the use of either of the two and let the contractor figure the most economical use of materials.

Allowing the use of MC cable is not the same a requiring the use of MC cable. I was on a job once where the engineer actualy speced MC and that made things more difficult. :grin:
 
donw said:
Charlie, thanks for that info. Was it also cheaper for branch circuits, too?

The project in question is a skilled nursing facility. It is approximately 45K s.f., single story - really spread out. I'm going to use 480V service. I will have a generator to run life safety and critical branches. Owner says that the rooms are not patient care areas, but he wants one receptacle on generator.
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I love that, " owner says "..

Cost wise, MC is less in labor and material. I would use have EMT, but the dollar rules...
 
conduit is cheaper when running multiwire branch circuits just figure $60.00 for 500ft THHN the first circuit is $180.00 conduit is around $100.00 for 500ft so 280.00 in material and what ever you have as labor cost m/c $125.00 for 250Ft or $250.00 for 500 and labor,labor is less,. The cost jumps for the second circuit as two runs of M/C are $500.00 in material but to add the second circuit in conduit it is only $60.00 or $240.00 material and additional labor is minimal.
 
Rewire said:
conduit is cheaper when running multiwire branch circuits just figure $60.00 for 500ft THHN the first circuit is $180.00 conduit is around $100.00 for 500ft so 280.00 in material and what ever you have as labor cost m/c $125.00 for 250Ft or $250.00 for 500 and labor,labor is less,. The cost jumps for the second circuit as two runs of M/C are $500.00 in material but to add the second circuit in conduit it is only $60.00 or $240.00 material and additional labor is minimal.
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They make 12/3 and 12/4..
 
captaincrab55 said:
I've seen 12/10, but not sure if they have it for Health Care..
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Can you get it with 3 isolated grounds in the same cable?


A big rack of conduit is a money maker over MC. Plus it looks much better. ;) I don't even like to see MC run to the panel . Long home runs in conduit and MC for everything else. Just give the contractor the option and he will use MC when cost effective. This will keep the bid price down.
 
Rewire said:
what is weight and difficulty on installation? Can you get it in combinations like 12/2 and 10/2 in same jacket?
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Save time and just call the supply house....

Pulling 12/4 & 10/4 off 1000' reels isn't that difficult either.. In fact my crew usually pulls 2 home runs together..

BTW, I'm finding that Hospitals are requiring a neutral for each circuit and limit 3 circuits per conduit with all stranded wire...

MC can be special ordered...
 
It sounds like the consensus is "give the contractor the option". In my regular specs. (printed on my plans), I give this option with written permission of the owner. Since I'll be writing "book form" specs, (and I know the owner wants it as inexpensive as possible) I'll simply give the contractor the option.
 
I offer a $.71 deduct per linear foot of 1/2? EMT to go to MC. It should be noted that locally bringing MC directly into a panel is not allowed, so all home runs are 1/2? and 3/4" EMT to the first JB.

While the no MC into a panel seems silly to me, it does make for a clean installation and it making it easier to get back into the panels later which seems like a nice marriage between the methods.

As for the comment about multi-wire branch circuits being cheaper in EMT, there is no rule that says you can?t run EMT on an MC job; especially if the application is better suited and cheaper in EMT. The idea is to allow MC to be use on a job as an option, not as the only mandated method.

I have also used the green hospital MC extensively and have not had any negative issues with its use.
 
Around here, MC is hands down cheaper to install then EMT. Most jobs are done with MC cable with EMT in the exposed areas, although some retail store specs allow MC in the exposed areas, and that's exactly what gets installed.
 
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