Cost of new residential service

[lgmagone]

Hello,

I am contemplating a couple projects for feasibility. The local power company requires me to pay them $125 per idea before they even provide rough order of magnitude cost estimates for new residential service. I'd like to try to get some ballpark numbers to see what we're looking at before deciding if it makes sense to continue fleshing out the ideas.

Can you guestimate the cost of the options below in your area, and if you are comfortable, mention whereabouts you are talking from? I can then scale them to the area that I am looking at. I know that the power company is the one to make the official determination, but I need to decide if I have budget to even make it worth talking to them.

There is a pole pole (newly installed in 2017) on my property. It currently has a line that connects to the overhead main, drops underground, and runs to a neighboring property. There is a padmount transformer on the neighboring property.The options I am considering:

1) Have the utility company install a pole mounted transformer and run overhead secondary line to the desired location.

2) Run an underground line from the neighbor's padmount transformer to the desired location (100 feet). Most likely, he will not allow me to run underground power on his property. (You can read this as he won't, but I suspect this is the amount that the utility would credit me for new service, so this is helpful information.)

3) Have the utility install 50 feet of HV line from the power pole to a padmount transformer location, and then run 100 feet of secondary to the desired location.


The utility states that they provide a credit to offset the cost for new residences in the amount equivalent to 150' of new service, excluding the trenching and conduit costs. I do not know if that credit assumes that I would hook into the nearby padmount transformer or if they would include the cost of a separate padmount transformer for my site as well.

Thank you.

 

[Little Bill]

I can't see how we could help you as every POCO is different. What it costs in my area probably wouldn't even come close to the price in other states/areas. For instance, one of our POCOs will furnish the wire and the customer provides the conduit. Another one furnishes the conduit and charges the customer for the wire.

Also, none of the POCOs here charge for an engineer to look at a project. Only charge is for actually providing whatever service is required for the customer's needs.

 

[jumper]

I can't see how we could help you as every POCO is different.

Yep.

 

[lgmagone]

I can't see how we could help you as every POCO is different. What it costs in my area probably wouldn't even come close to the price in other states/areas. For instance, one of our POCOs will furnish the wire and the customer provides the conduit. Another one furnishes the conduit and charges the customer for the wire.

Also, none of the POCOs here charge for an engineer to look at a project. Only charge is for actually providing whatever service is required for the customer's needs.

Yeah, I'm in a bit of a bind. They won't reveal any information without first paying them $125. They will credit the $125 toward the customer project if the customer goes forward, but will not even open a discussion about costs until payment is made.

So I haven't the foggiest clue whether what I'm proposing will cost $5000 or $25000. I think $5000 might be doable, but $25,000 would be silly. To pay $125 to determine that my project is overbudget for electric service would not be beneficial.

 

[jumper]

Yeah, I'm in a bit of a bind. They won't reveal any information without first paying them $125. They will credit the $125 toward the customer project if the customer goes forward, but will not even open a discussion about costs until payment is made.

So I haven't the foggiest clue whether what I'm proposing will cost $5000 or $25000. I think $5000 might be doable, but $25,000 would be silly. To pay $125 to determine that my project is overbudget for electric service would not be beneficial.

Before I condemn POCO, which personally I kinda like at times, a few more details on this service.

We talking about what size and voltage?

 

[gar]

180729-2435 EDT

There is something very strange about the original post. It seems to be couched in secrecy.

If power is needed, then it has to come from somewhere. If not the power company, then where?

If the power company is the only source, then pay the 125 and work with them.

If you have your own transformer, then why put it 100 ft away?

How many kVA, and at what secondary voltage? Any need for three phase?

.

 

[growler]

2) Run an underground line from the neighbor's padmount transformer to the desired location (100 feet). Most likely, he will not allow me to run underground power on his property. (You can read this as he won't, but I suspect this is the amount that the utility would credit me for new service, so this is helpful information.)

Option #2 is always the cheapest. I don't really see a problems here. I assume the pad mount transformer belongs to the power company. That means they should already have a signed "easement" on his property. Or maybe not.

When you say it's a 100 feet to the transformer is any of that on your property?

I would at least check with the neighbor to see if he would sign an easement if needed.

 

[electrofelon]

You say the pole is on your property but serves a neighbor. Does he have an easement with you? Or the porimary is probably utility owned so perhaps "his" line falls under the easement you have with the POCO for the pole? If the latter than it seems he would have to let the power company run another line from there to you.

How far is it from the pole to where you want power?

 

[growler]

To pay $125 to determine that my project is overbudget for electric service would not be beneficial.

180729-2435 EDT

There is something very strange about the original post. It seems to be couched in secrecy.

If the power company is the only source, then pay the 125 and work with them.
.

I wouldn't have a problem with letting them have $125.00 as some sort of non-refundable deposit.

 

[electrofelon]

I wouldn't have a problem with letting them have $125.00 as some sort of non-refundable deposit.

Yeah, if that is indeed the case that you need $125 for each "idea", that is a bit weird but in the scheme of things not that big a deal. OP, how about this one: A recent project of mine we wanted to investigate the cost of bringing in a new service versus transforming it off an existing service. We were told it would be $750. Well someone "misunderstood" and the bill was actually $16k.

 

[growler]

They won't reveal any information without first paying them $125. They will credit the $125 toward the customer project if the customer goes forward, but will not even open a discussion about costs until payment is made.

Yeah, if that is indeed the case that you need $125 for each "idea", that is a bit weird but in the scheme of things not that big a deal. OP, how about this one: A recent project of mine we wanted to investigate the cost of bringing in a new service versus transforming it off an existing service. We were told it would be $750. Well someone "misunderstood" and the bill was actually $16k.

I read what the OP says as the power company wants a non-refundable deposit.

I think a power company engineer will have to make a site visit and discuss options. Be a bit better if an EC was involved to ask the right questions with the POCO engineer.

I would much rather pay $125 than get a $15K surprise.

 

[Craigv]

Hello,

I am contemplating a couple projects for feasibility. The local power company requires me to pay them $125 per idea before they even provide rough order of magnitude cost estimates for new residential service. I'd like to try to get some ballpark numbers to see what we're looking at before deciding if it makes sense to continue fleshing out the ideas.

Can you guestimate the cost of the options below in your area, and if you are comfortable, mention whereabouts you are talking from? I can then scale them to the area that I am looking at. I know that the power company is the one to make the official determination, but I need to decide if I have budget to even make it worth talking to them.

There is a pole pole (newly installed in 2017) on my property. It currently has a line that connects to the overhead main, drops underground, and runs to a neighboring property. There is a padmount transformer on the neighboring property.The options I am considering:

1) Have the utility company install a pole mounted transformer and run overhead secondary line to the desired location.

2) Run an underground line from the neighbor's padmount transformer to the desired location (100 feet). Most likely, he will not allow me to run underground power on his property. (You can read this as he won't, but I suspect this is the amount that the utility would credit me for new service, so this is helpful information.)

3) Have the utility install 50 feet of HV line from the power pole to a padmount transformer location, and then run 100 feet of secondary to the desired location.


The utility states that they provide a credit to offset the cost for new residences in the amount equivalent to 150' of new service, excluding the trenching and conduit costs. I do not know if that credit assumes that I would hook into the nearby padmount transformer or if they would include the cost of a separate padmount transformer for my site as well.

Thank you.

If you need utility power on your property, you have no choice but to pay the $125, which isn't much, and which you will get back when the installation is done. Why is this a roadblock? You own property, and you want to develop it. What's $125?

In most areas the PoCo owns the infrastructure they install, up to and including their meter. The charges are "fees" not an outright purchase of equipment. They obtain an easement to that location. So if the present transformer is theirs, and has sufficient available capacity, they can and often will use it rather than install another transformer, whether your neighbor likes it or not...it won't be his choice.

Many if not most utilities publish requirement documents and they're readily available online. What utility is this? And some utilities will have an engineer call you for a short discussion of what you have and need before arranging a site visit.

 

[lgmagone]

Sorry if my post wasn't very clear. I think it was, but folks are curious about some of the backstory.

I'm not building a home or other building on the property at this time. I'm considering installing an irrigation well for timber irrigation. I know how much the well would cost and I'm working up the estimate for the irrigation system. A big piece of the cost may be electric service. While I am willing to pay the $125 if everything appears like it might be a go, for now, I'd like to get some rough idea of how much it might cost. If it's $15k or $20k, the project probably won't be doable.

As to the easement question, the overhead line was run on the property that I own today approximately 20-30 years ago, long before I took ownership of it. There are no easements attached to my property that allow utilities to be extended to the neighbor's property, and I've been a bit of a pain about not routing any more underground utilities on the property I own. (I do not wish for it to become a de facto utility corridor, especially if the neighbor were to eventually subdivide and put more homes on the property.) Thus I think he will not be happy about me routing underground utilities from the padmount transformer to the potential well site. With that said, he did sign an easement with the electric company, that was notarized and signed with the county, granting them the right to extend power to neighboring parcels, so he couldn't say no if that is the way that the POCO wanted to do it.


I think one person mentioned that HV service was cheaper than LV service, and minimizing the secondary length of line would save cost. That is good information to have, thank you for that.

 

[kwired]

If you need utility power on your property, you have no choice but to pay the $125, which isn't much, and which you will get back when the installation is done. Why is this a roadblock? You own property, and you want to develop it. What's $125?

In most areas the PoCo owns the infrastructure they install, up to and including their meter. The charges are "fees" not an outright purchase of equipment. They obtain an easement to that location. So if the present transformer is theirs, and has sufficient available capacity, they can and often will use it rather than install another transformer, whether your neighbor likes it or not...it won't be his choice.

Many if not most utilities publish requirement documents and they're readily available online. What utility is this? And some utilities will have an engineer call you for a short discussion of what you have and need before arranging a site visit.

It is not always that simple. I have client that wants three phase for two irrigation wells plus grain storage system. POCO currently has single phase distribution running past the place. There is fees for POCO to build not only each individual service involved but also to upgrade the single phase MV distribution - which is about a mile to 1.5 miles back to where three phase is available. My client is trying to talk a neighbor into sharing at least some of the cost to put in the three phase distribution and convert his diesel powered well to electric.

Gave him cost advantages for doing so, but guy doesn't want to convert right now.

My client has already decided they are doing this whether they pay all of it or not. But thing is after he pays for it, nothing prevents his neighbor from deciding in a year or two to convert his well, and most of the distribution he will need is already in place, and paid for by my client.

I have seen this kind of thing for residential as well. First person to build a home in a new undeveloped area pays for infrastructure to get utilities to them. Next guy to build nearby only pays for his significantly less extension to what the first guy had to pay for.

 

[Dzboyce]

You need power for an irrigation pump service. What horsepower will your pump be? 10 hp is about your max for single phase service. Is three phase power even available at your location.

im waiting for my local POCO to energize service later today for a 150 hp service for an irrigation pump. This service involved coming across the county road overhead. Setting a pole with three 75 kva transformers. Then conductors down the pole in pvc conduit, then buried 10 ft under ground, the back up again. From there, I installed a CT can and meter, then 100 ft underground to the Pump panel and Pump. The POCO fees were in the $5-7k range for this service.

The well I’m drilling now will have somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 ft of underground primary. Then a pad mount transformer for a 600 hp pump. I don’t even want to know what this service is costing.

 

[kwired]

You need power for an irrigation pump service. What horsepower will your pump be? 10 hp is about your max for single phase service. Is three phase power even available at your location.

Assume you are replying to me. Pumps I was mentioning are 75 and 100 hp. neighbor's pump would have been 100 hp I think. Grain storage bins will have another 100 HP of load that will all run at one time. This will be three separate services on the POCO system, four counting neighbor's well. Two quarter sections of farm land and the grain bins about right in the middle between them.

 

[Dzboyce]

Actually I was replying to the OP’s post #13. He says this service cost he’s trying to get an idea of cost is for an irrigation well.

lot of difference if he’s thinking about a 3-5 hp pump that runs on 230v single phase service, compared to a three phase service for a larger Pump.

 

[growler]

Sorry if my post wasn't very clear. I think it was, but folks are curious about some of the backstory.
I'm not building a home or other building on the property at this time. I'm considering installing an irrigation well for timber irrigation.

The title of this thread was "cost of new residential service".

 

[lgmagone]

Actually I was replying to the OP’s post #13. He says this service cost he’s trying to get an idea of cost is for an irrigation well.

lot of difference if he’s thinking about a 3-5 hp pump that runs on 230v single phase service, compared to a three phase service for a larger Pump.

My irrigation well would probably be small scale. Maybe 35gpm down 300 feet. The well would initially be used for irrigation but could be repurposed for residential usage should I eventually build on the property. Building is just not the plan today.

 

[Craigv]

It is not always that simple. I have client that wants three phase for two irrigation wells plus grain storage system. POCO currently has single phase distribution running past the place. There is fees for POCO to build not only each individual service involved but also to upgrade the single phase MV distribution - which is about a mile to 1.5 miles back to where three phase is available. My client is trying to talk a neighbor into sharing at least some of the cost to put in the three phase distribution and convert his diesel powered well to electric.

Gave him cost advantages for doing so, but guy doesn't want to convert right now.

My client has already decided they are doing this whether they pay all of it or not. But thing is after he pays for it, nothing prevents his neighbor from deciding in a year or two to convert his well, and most of the distribution he will need is already in place, and paid for by my client.

I have seen this kind of thing for residential as well. First person to build a home in a new undeveloped area pays for infrastructure to get utilities to them. Next guy to build nearby only pays for his significantly less extension to what the first guy had to pay for.

Everything here coincides with what I wrote, so I'm not sure where you feel I oversimplified things. Installed PoCo infrastructure pretty much always has an easement for maintenance and improvement of their gear. If right to access is ever denied, they typically can respond by declaring the installed equipment unsafe and shutting off power..if it only affects the one stubborn person. And yes, first guy typically pays the most, everyone else reaps any benefit that may come along with the first guy's installation. I've watched with amusement the waiting game played by two cheap neighbors who won't spring for the utility fees to get power to undeveloped property. It's like a long boring game of chess!