"Country Service"

[ceb58]

Per 225.32 either outside or immediately inside UNLESS you can apply 700.12(B)(6) (many generators do not have "service rated" breakers)

Plus it must comply with 445.18

 

[hurk27]

someone please tell me what conductors are inside a pole???

VI. Service Equipment ? Disconnecting Means
230.70 General. Means shall be provided to disconnect all
conductors in a building or other structure from the serviceentrance
conductors.

Where is a disconnect required for conductors "outside a pole"???

 

[hurk27]

Originally Posted by roger The meter and service disconnect must be mounted on some sort of structure even if it's simply a pole for the service.

someone please tell me what conductors are inside a pole???

VI. Service Equipment ? Disconnecting Means
230.70 General. Means shall be provided to disconnect all
conductors in a building or other structure from the serviceentrance
conductors.

Where is a disconnect required for conductors "outside a pole"???

 

[hurk27]

sorry for the double post above, I have no idea why it did it, and 3 miniuts apart?, I only posted once

although I had two windows open


Anyway, this is the bases of why I feed an out building from a double lug in a meter base, since the conductors going to the out building never enter the house there is no requirment for a disconnect or a OCPD.

A meter on a pole with conductors going into the ground or back up the pole never enter the pole, so they are still service entrance conductors.

 

[shepelec]

So if the building has a metal water main and your service is 100+ feet away do you still use it as an electrode? If so that means you are running a GEC and a EGC?

I wonder if the CMP though of this.

 

[hurk27]

So if the building has a metal water main and your service is 100+ feet away do you still use it as an electrode? If so that means you are running a GEC and a EGC?

I wonder if the CMP though of this.

the requirement for grounding electrodes is for each individual building, not all the buildings, so no GEC needed between buildings or structures.

250.50 Grounding Electrode System. All grounding electrodes
as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are
present at each building or structure served shall be bondedQUOTE]

see the "Each in red above"

Again in 250.32 Two or More Buildings or Structures Supplied from a Common Service:

the grounding electrode(s) required in Part III of this article at each building or structure

 

[roger]

someone please tell me what conductors are inside a pole???

What's inside of the pole structure is not an issue, but once a disconnect has been installed at this pole and a "feeder" is pulled to the other structure, 225 comes to the party

Where is a disconnect required for conductors "outside a pole"???

Nowhere, but what does that have to do with anything? The service is not for that structure.

Roger

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The question is why did the op put a disconnect at the pole? Since one is needed at the dwelling either outside or directly inside as near as possible to the entrance of the conductors then a disco is not necessary at the pole. Set the meter and run three wires to the house.

 

[shepelec]

the requirement for grounding electrodes is for each individual building, not all the buildings, so no GEC needed between buildings or structures.

250.50 Grounding Electrode System. All grounding electrodes
as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are
present at each building or structure served shall be bondedQUOTE]

see the "Each in red above"

Again in 250.32 Two or More Buildings or Structures Supplied from a Common Service:

I understand the wording of the code.

My point was the requirement to bond the neutral and ground the service at a pedestal or pole does not really make sense to me, when the laterals are completely outside the building.

It would seem to make more sense to to count those conductors as service and ground the neutral at the building. The only electrodes to are going to be able to hit are a couple of rods. It would seem to be a better system to have your electrodes and neutral bond closer to the OCP devices because we know that most made electrodes are not worth a crap when it comes to opening the OCP on a phase/ ground fault.

 

[kwired]

The question is why did the op put a disconnect at the pole? Since one is needed at the dwelling either outside or directly inside as near as possible to the entrance of the conductors then a disco is not necessary at the pole. Set the meter and run three wires to the house.

From OP

My questions is in regard to the what I would call a "country residential service". It is a pretty typical service that we have installed numerous times. There is a meter socket / main breaker / and ground rods out by the road. There is then a feeder going from this point to the home +/- 100' away. This feeder goes into the home to a "sub panel".

That is also common here for rural services. The meter and disconnect at the pole is provided by POCO. They are not always the same thing. Sometimes they have fuses, sometimes they have a breaker, or they may be non fused. They even will provide a combination meter / manual transfer switch that has no overcurrent protection. Inspectors in the past have not allowed to use this as a service disconnect because of the fact that it is installed by the POCO and if it needs replaced they may replace it with a device with no overcurrent protection.

They do this in part because of 547.9 (A) requiring a site-isolating device, and for their convenience of providing their customers a place to disconnect the site from utility power - everything past this point is customer owned and maintained.

We have not been on 2008 code very long and not sure but am guessing that they will still view this the same way as far as not considering it a service disconnect in case the POCO changes it at a later time. This will make a difference of wether you need a separate EGC for loads that leave this point.

 

[shockin]

The question is why did the op put a disconnect at the pole?

As kwired mentioned later on, the Utility company often provides these.

In this case we installed it because the feeder runs into the house a little ways before the panel. I assumed that if I installed an overcurrent device to protect these conductors it would be okay.

It would have been fine had it not been for the utility pole being considered a second structure.