Creating estimate for service change-out/upgrade, my first "official" estimate...

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sw_ross

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Creating estimate for service change-out/upgrade, my first "official" estimate...

I've done lots of service change-outs/upgrades, but they've all been while working for others.
I recently got my contracting license and am venturing out on my own.
Have a person that wants a quote for a change-out/upgrade, among other misc things.
I haven't seen the house yet.

My initial thought is to create a mtl list for what is needed to complete the service, add a markup, then estimate hours to do work, calculate an hourly rate that covers my overhead and an hourly wage for myself.

I've heard talk of people using a flat rate pricing for work similar to this, that scares me! Maybe after having a bunch under my belt I will be able to "eye-ball" the job and give a price...

Any recommendations are appreciated!
Thanks!
 
create a mtl list for what is needed to complete the service, add a markup, then estimate hours to do work, calculate an hourly rate that covers my overhead and an hourly wage for myself
Click to expand...

That's my recommendation.
 
sw_ross said:
I've done lots of service change-outs/upgrades, but they've all been while working for others.
I recently got my contracting license and am venturing out on my own.
Have a person that wants a quote for a change-out/upgrade, among other misc things.
I haven't seen the house yet.

My initial thought is to create a mtl list for what is needed to complete the service, add a markup, then estimate hours to do work, calculate an hourly rate that covers my overhead and an hourly wage for myself.

I've heard talk of people using a flat rate pricing for work similar to this, that scares me! Maybe after having a bunch under my belt I will be able to "eye-ball" the job and give a price...

Any recommendations are appreciated!
Thanks!
Click to expand...

$2,250.00

that's flat rate pricing, assuming it's overhead fed,
and a combo service.

would i do one sight unseen for that? yeah. if i
blew it, i'd still make the same money, i'd just
have to work a bit harder for it.

realistically, it's a day's work. back off the materials.
what's left is yours, assuming no employees.

i've probably done a couple hundred of them in that
price range. i've done 2 of them in a day at that
price, but the second one sucked, and didn't get finished
till 11 pm. it was an emergency one, started on it at 5 pm,
just as i was putting my tools away from the first one.
 
Recommendations? Well, last panel change I did, when we removed the old panel, the studs flexed inward just enough to make getting the new panel in a nightmare... put a 4x4 block across the front and beat it in with a sledgehammer... if you're solo, might want to take a bottle jack or two with you. Also, the siding guys ran a nail thru our new SE cable to the meter, so Dominion wouldn't energize, and it failed inspection for no AFCI breakers... 3 trips 60 miles each way to complete it.

I say that so you can be prepared for anything. The probability of having to pull off a job for parts/materials rises exponentially to the distance to the nearest supply house and/or how far away it is from your office/shop/home. If you're 5 minutes from a supply house, you'll never need to go there... 1 hour? Every time.

also, plaster walls and 'edge recessed' panels ala old FPEs are going to take some time to yank out. Make sure the HO doesnt have a ton of junk or a safe in front of the panel either... make sure you let them know any new AFCI breakers (in place of regular) that trip are an extra fee to sort out, neutrals of different circuits always seem tied together somewhere...

I've heard panels changes for 200A service, one panel, no sub or generator panels, costing between 1500 and 4k here, I'd say average is around 2k with 3 AFCI breakers included (VA only requires them for bedroom outlets, or did until July 1 on the 2012 IRC).

Leave wall repair out of your scope or get a sub to do it and bill accordingly. If you wanted to fix sheetrock, you would be doing that instead of electrical, right?
 
sw_ross said:
I've done lots of service change-outs/upgrades, but they've all been while working for others.
I recently got my contracting license and am venturing out on my own.
Have a person that wants a quote for a change-out/upgrade, among other misc things.
I haven't seen the house yet.

My initial thought is to create a mtl list for what is needed to complete the service, add a markup, then estimate hours to do work, calculate an hourly rate that covers my overhead and an hourly wage for myself.

I've heard talk of people using a flat rate pricing for work similar to this, that scares me! Maybe after having a bunch under my belt I will be able to "eye-ball" the job and give a price...

Any recommendations are appreciated!
Thanks!
Click to expand...

2200 base price, 250 for a water bond, 150 per ground rod 800-1200 to change the meter


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Fulthrotl said:
$2,250.00

that's flat rate pricing, assuming it's overhead fed,
and a combo service.

would i do one sight unseen for that? yeah. if i
blew it, i'd still make the same money, i'd just
have to work a bit harder for it.

realistically, it's a day's work. back off the materials.
what's left is yours, assuming no employees.

i've probably done a couple hundred of them in that
price range. i've done 2 of them in a day at that
price, but the second one sucked, and didn't get finished
till 11 pm. it was an emergency one, started on it at 5 pm,
just as i was putting my tools away from the first one.
Click to expand...
You just were awarded the job, when you get there you will find out you need to install an 800 amp fused switch as the service disconnect and you will be over budget just in that item:D
 
kwired said:
You just were awarded the job, when you get there you will find out you need to install an 800 amp fused switch as the service disconnect and you will be over budget just in that item:D
Click to expand...

If you are giving a quote without seeing it. Ask the customer to supply photos of equipment you would normally look at. Also let them know your quote is a rough quote and may change upon seeing the job. Most of the time they will either accept that or have you put to give a closer to cost estimate.


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kwired said:
You just were awarded the job, when you get there you will find out you need to install an 800 amp fused switch as the service disconnect and you will be over budget just in that item:D
Click to expand...

In my 15 years I have never been required to do this.


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kwired said:
You just were awarded the job, when you get there you will find out you need to install an 800 amp fused switch as the service disconnect and you will be over budget just in that item:D
Click to expand...

house. it was just a house..... honest.

i'm gonna do let's say... twenty of these....
and one craters. eats my whole lunch.

i'm down a day.

it would be unusual if a residential upgrade
took over $2,200 in material, agreed?

most of the stuff i'm looking at for $2,200
will leave me $1,600 or so after materials.

so, i'm risking $1,600 against 20 drives out
to eyeball it in person.

depending on location, 2 hours to round trip
it in this part of the country is stupid optimistic.

that is 40 hours nonproductive labor to earn
$1,600. that is $40 an hour, gross.

so, that five days of driving will save me $1,600
or let me do 5 service changes, netting me $8,000.

either one.
 
I wasn't trying to be too serious, but there is still the element of surprise if you quote something having never seen it.

If awarded the job, you still possibly show up and see you need things you weren't prepared for and still need to run after those things.
 
Fulthrotl has an interesting way to look at it.
Thinking about it for lower priced items, say a ceiling fan cut-in, I would only do a phone estimate.
For the same reason, unless I was already right there, it could take more time driving, and going in the home than then it was worth. If I'm going to go thru all that then I want to do the work. Not entertain price shoppers, DIY questions, planers for a later date.

That said there is also something to being there for a sales call. It's more than just giving a price or estimating materials. It's about providing confidence in your service and making a sale.

I never expect to close all sales calls, but I do wonder Fulthrotl's close rate.

Everyone has their amount or requirements they can justify a free sales call, bid, estimate.
For me if it was a days work I would chase after it.
But if Fulthrotl can do well without that, then my hats off to him.
 
Meet customer face to face

Meet customer face to face

I have a hard time imagining giving someone a quote over the phone without ever meeting them! And if they verbally accept that quote (by phone), showing up site unseen to do the job, hoping you have a fully stocked truck, and not missing some critical part that is needed.

What if you size up the customer and have concerns about their ability to afford/pay for the work?
 
active1 said:
Fulthrotl has an interesting way to look at it.
Thinking about it for lower priced items, say a ceiling fan cut-in, I would only do a phone estimate.
For the same reason, unless I was already right there, it could take more time driving, and going in the home than then it was worth. If I'm going to go thru all that then I want to do the work. Not entertain price shoppers, DIY questions, planers for a later date.

That said there is also something to being there for a sales call. It's more than just giving a price or estimating materials. It's about providing confidence in your service and making a sale.

I never expect to close all sales calls, but I do wonder Fulthrotl's close rate.

Everyone has their amount or requirements they can justify a free sales call, bid, estimate.
For me if it was a days work I would chase after it.
But if Fulthrotl can do well without that, then my hats off to him.
Click to expand...

Wait, you do free estimates? Estimates should be a minimum of 50 to get me there. If they don't want to pay that then they aren't serious.


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For 200 amp overhead I charge 2500. When I'm speaking to a potential client over the phone I let them know that most of the time there's no big surprises but occasionally we might find something unexpected. Once I'm awarded the job I'll drive out there the day before or earlier to view the job and get a material list. At this point I'll be able to see if there's anything unexpected and discuss with the client any additional charges If any apply. while im speaking to my customer I'll go ahead and offer a whole house surge protector for an additional $200 which 90% say yes and I just added another $100 to my profit:) just in case your wondering it's the Siemens whole house surge protector.
 
Surge protector add-on

Surge protector add-on

I like that I idea of offering the surge protector option...
Especially if the HO has lots of expensive electronics.

It would be simple to include in the panel change-out- just make sure and use a panel brand/model that you can get the snap-on beaker style surge protector and it's as easy as snapping in an additional breaker.
 
one days work

one days work

I am always surprised when someone states that doing a service change is just a one day job!
All the service changes that I have done require the following:
Talking to customer on phone to arrange visit. Drive to job and SELL the job to the customer.

Prepare a proposal and send via email.
Once estimated is accepted then do everything that is involved in pulling the permit.
The day before the job I purchase all of the materials. Then I spend one day at the job site completing work.
I then arrange for the inspection and meet the inspector at the job site and collect the final payment.

I figure that this requires at least 2-3 days!
 
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