crossing line and load in a breaker panel
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petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
Re: crossing line and load in a breaker panel
Its allowed in NYC and encouraged in San Francisco, but the rest of the country frowns on it.
Its allowed in NYC and encouraged in San Francisco, but the rest of the country frowns on it.
Re: crossing line and load in a breaker panel
I am trying to picture swapping line and load in a residential load center..... so you are hooking a # 2 to the 15a breaker and a # 14 to the 100A breaker. This is not code.
I am sure this is not what you are suggesting. Please be more specfic
I am trying to picture swapping line and load in a residential load center..... so you are hooking a # 2 to the 15a breaker and a # 14 to the 100A breaker. This is not code.
I am sure this is not what you are suggesting. Please be more specfic
Re: crossing line and load in a breaker panel
If the main lugs are at the top of the panel and the line voltage comes in at the bottom of the panel then the load voltage (the wires leaving the breaker) would cross the line voltage. I was told that this was not legal but cannot find it in the NEC.
If the main lugs are at the top of the panel and the line voltage comes in at the bottom of the panel then the load voltage (the wires leaving the breaker) would cross the line voltage. I was told that this was not legal but cannot find it in the NEC.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: crossing line and load in a breaker panel
You won?t find it in the NEC. It is a matter of satisfying the installation and usage requirements of the manufacturer. If the manufacturer says you can?t, then the NEC will tell you that you must follow that instruction ? see article 110.3(B). Otherwise, it?s not illegal.
I can think of no physics-based reason for not allowing it. My only concern is whether there would be enough physical space for routing and connecting wires.
Do you have the option of buying a different panel (i.e., with lugs on the bottom)?
You won?t find it in the NEC. It is a matter of satisfying the installation and usage requirements of the manufacturer. If the manufacturer says you can?t, then the NEC will tell you that you must follow that instruction ? see article 110.3(B). Otherwise, it?s not illegal.
I can think of no physics-based reason for not allowing it. My only concern is whether there would be enough physical space for routing and connecting wires.
Do you have the option of buying a different panel (i.e., with lugs on the bottom)?
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
Re: crossing line and load in a breaker panel
It just takes up room on the side gutter of the panel that normally would be used for the branch circuit, neutral and ground wires. It's not illegal unless you have a small panel and don't have the room for both.
I've seen this done all the time and even done it myself. If you feed the panel from the back with a nipple throught the wall from an outside meter pan the only KO you can use is on the bottom with most panels.
-Hal
It just takes up room on the side gutter of the panel that normally would be used for the branch circuit, neutral and ground wires. It's not illegal unless you have a small panel and don't have the room for both.
I've seen this done all the time and even done it myself. If you feed the panel from the back with a nipple throught the wall from an outside meter pan the only KO you can use is on the bottom with most panels.
-Hal
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: crossing line and load in a breaker panel
NEC 2005 408.3(D) Terminals. In switchboards and panelboards, load terminals for field wiring, including grounded circuit conductor load terminals and connections to the ground bus for load equipment grounding conductors, shall be so located that it is not necessary to reach across or beyond an inunsulated ungrounded bus in order to make connections.
Doesn't that sound like the source of an urban legend along the lines of what you're saying? It has elements of everything you were thinking, but says something different. Inunsulated busbars represent a real threat, as opposed to insulated conductors in proximity to branch circuit terminations passing on the way by.
While we're in this neighborhood, I'm curious along the same lines: Is it legal to terminate the load side of a ...say... 400amp disconnect on the upper lugs? A buddy of mine failed based on that. It's common practice, line to the top, but is it code?
What about this:
NEC 2005 408.3(D) Terminals. In switchboards and panelboards, load terminals for field wiring, including grounded circuit conductor load terminals and connections to the ground bus for load equipment grounding conductors, shall be so located that it is not necessary to reach across or beyond an inunsulated ungrounded bus in order to make connections.
Doesn't that sound like the source of an urban legend along the lines of what you're saying? It has elements of everything you were thinking, but says something different. Inunsulated busbars represent a real threat, as opposed to insulated conductors in proximity to branch circuit terminations passing on the way by.
While we're in this neighborhood, I'm curious along the same lines: Is it legal to terminate the load side of a ...say... 400amp disconnect on the upper lugs? A buddy of mine failed based on that. It's common practice, line to the top, but is it code?
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