CSST & gas pipe bonding

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mpd

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does anybody know of any ground clamps that are listed for this use? I am starting to see contractors run a separate #6 and put a ground clamp on the gas black pipe manifold for CSST, all the ground clamps I see are listed for copper water tubing, I don't care if they want to bond it, IMO the clamp would have to be listed for that use
 
From the UL White Book:
Ground Clamps — Strap-type ground clamps are not suitable for attachment of the grounding conductor of an interior wiring system to a grounding electrode.
Ground clamps and other connectors suitable for use where buried in earth or embedded in concrete are marked for such use. The marking may be abbreviated ‘‘DB’’ (for ‘‘Direct Burial’’).
Listed ground clamps are also suitable for telecommunication applications, such as telephone, radio, CATV and the like, in accordance with Articles 800, 810, 820 and Section 250.94 of the NEC, in addition to those covered under Grounding and Bonding Equipment, Communication (KDSH).
Listed irreversible compression type connectors are suitable for splicing the grounding electrode conductor.
Clamps are intended for use with rod and/or pipe electrodes in accordance with the NEC and are marked with the size of electrode and electrode grounding conductor with which the clamp is intended to be used.
Clamps suitable for use on copper water tubing are marked for such use.
Clamps intended for use with re-bar are marked with the size of re-bar with which the clamp is intended to be used.
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In looking, I don't see where a pipe clamp is prohibited to be used on CSST by the clamp's listing; it could be prohibited by the listing of the gas pipe/CSST itself, I don't know about that.

What potential danger do you see from the bonding as it stands?
 
george

I am just curious if you can use a clamp that says copper water tubing on black iron gas pipe or a brass CSST fitting
 
George I think mpd is correct.

250.8 requires the clamps to be 'listed', that combined with 110.3(B) means (IMO) that a ground clamp that is listed for copper pipe can not be used on black iron pipe and meet the letter of the NEC.

I don't personally see it as a danger and I doubt mpd does either but I can see his point.
 
Many CSST installations begin with a brass or black iron pipe nipple off a manifold of some sort. That nipple would be a good place to hit with your bond wire if you feel the overwhelming need for additional bonding of the gas piping system.

I also aggree with the suggestion that if a clamp is listed for copper pipe, it is also necessarily approved for the lesser use on black iron.
 
mdshunk said:
Many CSST installations begin with a brass or black iron pipe nipple off a manifold of some sort. That nipple would be a good place to hit with your bond wire if you feel the overwhelming need for additional bonding of the gas piping system.
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CSST has instructions on where to bond, and I agree with the overwhelming need for additional bonding comment...
 
It seems to me that copper is softer than iron, so a clamp that is only good for iron could possibly damage the copper pipe. (Edit: Not to mention the dissimilar metals aspects.)

Looking at a GB catalog I have here on the computer:

View attachment 696

It says "pipe", not exclusively copper pipe. I'm sure the instructions are probably more explicit about the ability to connect the clamp to a copper pipe as well.

Edit: I'm referring to GRC-14 up there, I've never seen the flexible doohickey in the flesh, myself. :)
 
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georgestolz said:
It says "pipe", not exclusively copper pipe.
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Yes. but the UL book says copper.

If the UL book said 'metallic' pipe I would see no issue.

BTW, FWIW I have two of these clamps on my own service either side of the water meter, I think they both land on bronze fittings. :grin:
 
FWIW-- I got turned down for that type clamp on the brass fitting fot the gastite. The inspector said the clamp needed to be suitable for use with brass. He made me move it to the black iron pipe.
 
I agree with iwire, I don't think it is a hazard but with the problems they have had with CSST, should you be using a clamp that is listed for copper water tubing on gas pipe,
 
mpd said:
I agree with iwire, I don't think it is a hazard but with the problems they have had with CSST, should you be using a clamp that is listed for copper water tubing on gas pipe,
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With the problems they have had with CSST, should it be used at all?
 
john

IMO it is not necessary, and I have told contractors, I don't care if they bond it, but the clamp would have to be listed.

george

that would be a good idea, because like I said all the clamps I see are stamped copper water tubing, I wonder why?
 
I've always used the standard pipe clamp to ground and/or bond black iron gas pipe. :-?

Never gave it a second thought, never been called on it by an inspector.:-?
 
mpd, my copy of the UL white book does not mention gas, or black iron pipe at all, when refering to grounding clamps. It does mention that clamps for copper water tubing are marked a suitable for use. (pg 123)
 
mpd said:
john

look at 250.8
Click to expand...

As soon as I re-read the thread I saw Bob's post.

I don't think a clamp is specifically listed for this. I can't find it in UL's white book.

I can't see where a pipe clamp won't do a good job bonding iron pipe.

So what you are saying, is that you will NOT permit bonding a gas pipe, because no clamp is specifically listed?
 
Wait a minute - What about non-copper water pipes? I see city water enter buildings with this pipe, and clamps are made for that. Are they listed? Hmmm...
 
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