Cu versus Al

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that's a good article. it's just so hard to believe the veracity of the information since the article is from the company trying to sell you the wire.

who to believe, that's the question.
 
I have absolutely no problem trusting aluminum wire and cable. We use it in nearly every residential service here and many commercial ones as well. I don't ever see any problems that are directly related to the use of aluminum wire.
 
I have a question that I cannot get an answer to regarding AA-8000 series conductors.
I have used them (Feeders over 100A) since I first got into the industry in 1993 and have never had an issue. We used them on large electric resistance heat AHU's and on many types of buildings including Hospitals.

Does anyone know of a credible issue with the AA-8000 series conductors on any building that I could research?

When I bring the issue up to about 70% of the engineers they have an outdated impression of the conductors that I have never experienced. So I try to get them to tell me an example of an issue they have experienced and I get nothing out of them. Then they bring up the extra maintenance cost and I ask them to show me a document where it indicates that maintenance of AA-8000 is recommended any more than copper conductors. I get nothing.

Sorry for the rambling but I am looking for some hard facts on this issue with the ever increasing cost of copper.

Thanks for any insights

-Ed
 
I've always used copper but I'm not sure if thats because of an unwarrented bias wich has been instilled in me over the years. I've never seen a problem with aluminum myself but I have heard plenty of horror stories. What do guys think??
 
peter d said:
I have absolutely no problem trusting aluminum wire and cable. We use it in nearly every residential service here and many commercial ones as well. I don't ever see any problems that are directly related to the use of aluminum wire.
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Same here. Use it everywhere I can.
 
ed downey said:
Does anyone know of a credible issue with the AA-8000 series conductors on any building that I could research?
Click to expand...

I've searched around the Internet and all roads lead back to examples of occurrences in the 60's and 70's. Even copper.org knocks aluminum based on the latter and other outdated information. Then again consider the source being they have a vested interest in the copper market.

I do find it interesting that most websites containing information about the dangers of aluminum wiring are "copy and paste" and almost word for word the same. With my IT background I know better than to subscribe to the notion: "it's true because it's on the Internet". Although, what I've read so far on the aluminum wiring subject there are a lot of people who subscribe to the hype....old and outdated information. A lot of sites mention "field reports" and the like containing updated information on fires and such with the new AA-8000 series wiring but yet no one provides a link to those mysterious reports. I am unable to find anything within the last 20 years which talks about fires related to AA-8000 series wiring. The NFPA doesn't have any articles either pertaining to the latter aside from the preverbial 1960-1980 timeframe of old aluminum wiring.

These guys appear to have a business devoted to AL wiring rework: http://www.alwirerepair.com/

IAEI article

CPSC notice, May 2003

EC&M article
 
Consider the conditions that the utilities conductors operate under, widely changing loads, heating cooling, rain etc.

The majority of utilities use AL.
 
iwire said:
Consider the conditions that the utilities conductors operate under, widely changing loads, heating cooling, rain etc.

The majority of utilities use AL.
Click to expand...

Not possible, copper is just sooo much better. :roll:
 
You know how those Utilities are, they are just out to make a buck at the expense of anyone involved:grin: :grin:

Or maybe they just know what has worked well for them for years. Things that make you go Huummmm
 
Conductor metal is a turf issue. Comming from the 70's I have carried a distrust of aluminum terminations. I have witnessed sever overheating and insulation burn back. I have no supporting data that this continues to occur and have several colleagues who use aluminum successfully. As most jobs are over budget before they go to contract we; as comtractors have to find creative ways value engineer money out of the bid. Some, do this with Aluminum. Sometimes on large service or feeder situtations there can be issues with the need for more and larger lugs on breakers and swithcboards. I have sceen simlar turff issues with EMT, MC and FNMT (smurf tube). Change ain't easy sometimes, we love our turfs.
 
I'd think good or bad material is only part of the equation, in this case maybe the smaller part. I think wire and other components has to be able to be easily installed by the majority of workers under normal or even adverse working conditions, regardless of how well it worked in the lab.

I thought the problem with aluminum installation was that it was "touchy", that you usually needed more than ordinary "due diligence."
 
I have found that Al tends to make lugs at services loosen up over time, or maybe it's just me. I've always been a copper man myself, however my opinion may be jaded since the next town over was where the majority of my ancestors worked in the copper mines. The name of the town is Copperhill.:grin:
 
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