Customer Shocked in new Shower/Neutral Missing?

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eljefetaco

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Fanwood, NJ
I am going to keep it brief until I see a few responses. (Obviously requiring me to do more fact checking) I have been brought into a job where the customer is getting an electrical shock when they touch the shower faucet. Previously it was a plastic faucet. If you take electrical meter from cold water to ground no voltage. (Or Hot water, heater is bonded). Go cold water to floor tile on I get 8 volts only when floor is wet. . If I turn the floor tile heater on I Get 64 volts. I have completely ruled out the tile floor heater as it was disconnected during my testing and only made matters worse. I suspect a bad neutral somewhere. The utility came out and said all good on there end. I put my amp meter on grounding electrode to water meter and get 1.2 amps. The Neutral from meter to incoming service is carrying a load also. Not Sure if current is coming in or going out. Have narrowed it down to a possible three circuits in the house. If I turn them off no current on water pipe. Crazy. Any thought??
 
I had a problem like this some time ago. We checked everything including shutting all the breakers off. Long story short it turned out to be the triplex cable from the utility pole rubbing against the aluminum siding. I'm not saying that that's what it is in your case but you have to keep looking, even in the weirdest places. Good luck.
 
eljefetaco said:
. Go cold water to floor tile on I get 8 volts only when floor is wet. . If I turn the floor tile heater on I Get 64 volts. I have completely ruled out the tile floor heater as it was disconnected during my testing and only made matters worse.
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I have to imagine one of the turn ons is a typo. Which?
eljefetaco said:
Yes and it does not trip GFCI. It is disconnect and problem exists.
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Does the GFCI function properly?
 
Is the floor tile conductive at all? The 8 volts and 64 volts could just be an induced voltage that you meter is picking up by capacitive coupling.
 
What type of supply and drain pipe is used, metal, plastic? Do you have access to the pipes, in the ceiling below or an access hole in an adjacent room? Can you measure the voltage between the different pipes?

You say tile floor, is there a plastic or metal drain cover? Are there metal screws that hold it down?
 
ron said:
Check voltages again with a low impedance meter

https://www.nema.org/Technical/Documents/Bull_88_reaffirmed_12_15_11.pdf
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Ron, good advice.

BTW I just read the document you posted:

Since the “phantom” voltage is a physical phenomenon involving very small values ofcapacitance, it cannot energize a load or cause physiological damage to a person.
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I've actually had a pretty decent shock from phantom voltage. I was sweating and touched a wire with 67 V "phantom" and a metal enclosure. It was enough to wake me up but obviously did not do any physiological damage.
 
Saturn_Europa said:
Ron, good advice.

BTW I just read the document you posted:



I've actually had a pretty decent shock from phantom voltage. I was sweating and touched a wire with 67 V "phantom" and a metal enclosure. It was enough to wake me up but obviously did not do any physiological damage.
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IMO, that was not phantom Voltage. If you can feel it, it is real. Even that is an incorrect statement. One half volt is real to a cow, while we won't notice it at all.
 
Saturn_Europa said:
Ron, good advice.

BTW I just read the document you posted:



I've actually had a pretty decent shock from phantom voltage. I was sweating and touched a wire with 67 V "phantom" and a metal enclosure. It was enough to wake me up but obviously did not do any physiological damage.
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Yes, but the real question is did it cause any psychological damage? :huh:
 
eljefetaco said:
I am going to keep it brief until I see a few responses. (Obviously requiring me to do more fact checking) I have been brought into a job where the customer is getting an electrical shock when they touch the shower faucet. Previously it was a plastic faucet. If you take electrical meter from cold water to ground no voltage. (Or Hot water, heater is bonded). Go cold water to floor tile on I get 8 volts only when floor is wet. . If I turn the floor tile heater on I Get 64 volts. I have completely ruled out the tile floor heater as it was disconnected during my testing and only made matters worse. I suspect a bad neutral somewhere. The utility came out and said all good on there end. I put my amp meter on grounding electrode to water meter and get 1.2 amps. The Neutral from meter to incoming service is carrying a load also. Not Sure if current is coming in or going out. Have narrowed it down to a possible three circuits in the house. If I turn them off no current on water pipe. Crazy. Any thought??
Click to expand...

What surface are they touching when they get the shock; the floor, the tub, the tile, the wall???

Guessing the floor, and I'm going to take a further wag that the floor tile heater or its wiring is the culprit. When you say disconnected, how? If I turned on the radiant floor heat and my readings went from 8 to 64V, I would look at that equipment. I'm willing to bet the voltage readings change depending on where on the floor you take them.

What voltage is the floor heat? Is it recently installed? Even if it were an old install, it could have been damaged from the get-go, only now it's a problem with the change from plastic to a metal faucet. Any recent work under the bathroom where a screw/nail could have been driven up into the mat?
 
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