Cut-in bx (metal) EGC

[e57]

250.146 Connecting Receptacle Grounding Terminal to Box.
An equipment bonding jumper shall be used to connect the grounding terminal of a grounding-type receptacle to a grounded box unless grounded as in 250.146(A) through (D).
(A) Surface Mounted Box. Where the box is mounted on the surface, direct metal-to-metal contact between the device yoke and the box shall be permitted to ground the receptacle to the box. This provision shall not apply to cover-mounted receptacles unless the box and cover combination are listed as providing satisfactory ground continuity between the box and the receptacle.

So - What say you???? Metal (grounded) Cut-in box in a base-board with both ears for the box, and the edge of the box on the surface of base board, and the yoke of the devive in full contact with the box. EGC to the device required?

 

[ike5547]

Will you be using a self grounding type receptacle?

 

[electricmanscott]

How do a "surface mounted box" and a "cut in box" relate??

 

[nolabama]

i installed an egc to the device last time i used metal boxes in a baseboard dont know if i Had to just did it out of habit i guess

 

[djcrzysounds@yahoo.com]

i installed an egc to the device last time i used metal boxes in a baseboard dont know if i Had to just did it out of habit i guess

Metal box should always have an EGC. Once you take the yoke off its no longer grounded. To me it's habit too...

 

[infinity]

With a self grounding device no bonding jumper required. Without a self grounding device jumper required even if the device has solid metal to metal contact.

 

[ike5547]

With a self grounding device no bonding jumper required. Without a self grounding device jumper required even if the device has solid metal to metal contact.

If this weren't the case, self grounding devices would be obsolete.

 

[alfiesauce]

If this weren't the case, self grounding devices would be obsolete.

We must work hard to save the self grounding devices. They are too valuable of resource to let go exstinct. I propose we set up a 'Save the Self Grounding Devices fund' immediatley. Any donations to this fund will be greatfully accepted by me. PM me for my paypal account.

 

[rabtrfld]

How do a "surface mounted box" and a "cut in box" relate??

With a "cut-in box" the yoke screws may be loosened to bring the outlet up flush with the wall surface, especially in old work with drywall over lath... this may be done at a later time by the drywall man. The spacers used for this are usually plastic so the ground is gone.

 

[infinity]

If this weren't the case, self grounding devices would be obsolete.

Not really, you would still use them to attach a receptacle to a grounded metal box that has a mud ring and not use a bonding jumper.

 

[donselec]

If it's recessed you have to use a bonding jumper unless it's a self-grounding device. But finding a s.g. device isn't so easy any more, I found that out the other day. Just try finding on the box where it says it's approved for self-grounding. I couldn't. But I still use them that way because I always have.

 

[e57]

How do a "surface mounted box" and a "cut in box" relate??

'Cause the mounting for said box - "is mounted on the surface, direct metal-to-metal contact between the device yoke and the box"

 

[LarryFine]

The bonding jumper is required. A surface-mount box is one whose back is at the wall plane, not its front.

Regardless of contact, "direct metal-to-metal contact between the device yoke and the box" does not negate "Where the box is mounted on the surface,"

It does not say "where the device is mounted on the surface, it says "where the box is mounted on the surface."

 

[iwire]

'Cause the mounting for said box - "is mounted on the surface, direct metal-to-metal contact between the device yoke and the box"

I agree with Scott and Larry, that is not a surface mounted box no matter how much you try to stretch it.

 

[iwire]

Oh, I did not answer you poll as I can't without knowing if it is a self grounding receptacle or not.

 

[electricmanscott]

I agree with Scott and Larry, that is not a surface mounted box no matter how much you try to stretch it.

And they are seriously trying to strech it.

 

[e57]

I agree with Scott and Larry, that is not a surface mounted box no matter how much you try to stretch it.

I don't see it as a stretch at all... If anything a wording issue that does not take into account every sitaution... If sticking directly to the wording of the code - the box above is mounted on the surface either with #4 screws, nails, or even battleships, of say a baseboard - the rest of the box is in the baseboard, and has just as much metal to metal contact on the yoke as would say a handy box would - which would not require a self-grounding device IMO. So if the box is grounded, so would be the outlet in it - IMO

 

[LarryFine]

If sticking directly to the wording of the code - the box above is mounted on the surface . . .

No, it's mounted to, or in, the surface, which is not the same as "Where the box is mounted on the surface,"

 

[e57]

No, it's mounted to, or in, the surface, which is not the same as "Where the box is mounted on the surface,"

Now here is why I call it a wording issue - and some history.... What I quoted was from the 2002.

What if it said this, as it did in 1993?

Surface Mounted Box. Where the box is mounted on or at the surface, direct metal-to-metal contact between the device yoke and the box shall be permitted to ground the receptacle to the box. This provision shall not apply to cover-mounted receptacles unless the box and cover combination are listed as providing satisfactory ground continuity between the box and the receptacle.

What if it says this, as it did, in 2005? The '08 adds some additional info on raised covers.... (That I don't feel like typing right now as it adds nothing to the discussion...)

Surface Mounted Box. Where the box is mounted on the surface, direct metal-to-metal contact between the device yoke or a contact yoke or device that complies with 250.146(B) shall be permitted to ground the receptacle to the box. At least one of the insulating washers shall be removed from receptacles that do not have a contact yoke or device that complies with 250.146(B) to ensure metal to metal contact. This provision shall not apply to cover-mounted receptacles unless the box and cover combination are listed as providing satisfactory ground continuity between the box and the receptacle.

 

[e57]

It does not say "where the device is mounted on the surface, it says "where the box is mounted on the surface."

Not sure how you mount them - but I usually mount them via the ears on the surface via #4x3/4" screws to the surface of the base-board. The device is not in contact with the baseboard, only the grounded box and ears of the box - that are on the surface.