cut off

[76nemo]

You should, we make money doing it that way, 4 hr min to go in at night. :grin:





No, that has not been what you have been saying, now your back peddling and putting limitations on your orginal posts. Now thats fine but be honest about it.



And just 'cause you have the ability' does not mean it will go well. Stuff happens beyond your ability to control them.

Have I worked hot? Yes. Do I still sometimes break the rules? Yes. Have I ever said otherwise? No. Would it be better if I always follwed the rules? Yes.

"And just 'cause you have the ability' does not mean it will go well. Stuff happens beyond your ability to control them."


One very long statement in a very short nutshell. Could NOT be said better!!!

 

[PetrosA]

You employer is required by law (As of 11/15/07) to purchase your PPE that is required to do your job safely. That means insulated tools (If they require you to work hot, which they should not), rubber gloves (Including testing them every 6 months) and FR clothing.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=20094&p_table=FEDERAL_REGISTER

He should have gotten me a van, too Every electrician in the PECO region who works on services has to do them hot. I'd be really curious how many of the employers in PECO territory have PPE and insulated tools for their guys. I have my own, but I'm the only person I know who has a set of insulated tools Very few of the local supply houses even carry them. Gloves and other PPE is only available from Graingers or online around here.

Truthfully - you are better off working hot - naked.... Than what 'could happen' with your "TRIPPER".... :roll:

What if the circuit does NOT TRIP? Other than a switch expolding in your hand, or the burns recieved from when the zip cord vaporizes - you could very well also burn the house down by igniting the wiring inside the walls... Do yourself a favor and chop the "tripper" into 1" peices.


Then do or get one or more of the following:

1. A helper, schmuck, passer-by or helpfull client.
2. A circuit tracer.
3. A skil-saw
4. A boom-box.
5. A clue...
6. A clamp-on ammeter
7. A cell phone.
8. A 1200W space heater.
9. A plug, wire, door bell transformer, and bell. Or a 120V 6~10" fire bell.
10. Some training on the results of short circuits.
11. Some imagination about how to do this safer.

In the past when short of a circuit tracer which can lead to a false positive on which breaker it might be - I have used some imaginitive ways to find breakers that while they may seem hokey - they are 1000% safer than tripping the circuit reguardless of the tripping method.

A 120v fire bell - just plug it in, and shut off breakers until it goes off.... Much like the boom-box method but makes everyone love you enough to allow you to shut off the main in order not to work hot....

Helper or any schmoe with a cell phone to tell you it is off will save you a few trips up and down stairs.

Fool proof method I find more reliable than the circuit tracer is to either have a helper operate a large motor or inductive load while I amp out the phase, and then every breaker on that phase.... A while back I had a client refuse to let me shut off any circuit unless I was 100% sure I had the right one. So, I had my schmuck rev up a skil-saw in his office while I found which phase the skil-saw was on, then which breaker of that phase it was on while I watched the ammeter numbers jump everytime he started it when I was on the circuit path. Effective yes, annoying - oh yeah.... :roll:

Thanks to your post, my Tripper is now in the trash It was the best thing I could think of in a pinch. I'd never heard of the flasher trick, but I will use that from now on. I have a circuit tracer, but it's not worth the plastic it's molded from nor can I afford a really good one at this point. Maybe I'll use the flasher to control a 120V fire bell... Yeah!

Edit to add: Speaking of the doorbell, on Friday we had to replace a panel that burned up. Tracing one of the romexes back led me to a nail-on in the basement ceiling with romex going in, and doorbell wire going out. The had 120V running to the doorbell switch, then back to feed the transformer, then the load side feeding the bell. Someone must really have gotten fed up with the door to door salesmen...

 

[76nemo]

well my company has a rule if you work it hot your gone so we never work hot .
Now our service dept will work hot but they use it as a last option and have safety plan & pp to do it .

I dont do service work just construction .

Heres a story many years ago before safety was a issue as it is today i was working on a 14kv line in the military there was two of us inside a high voltage tunnel kinda aboard a aircraft carrier .

We were to splice a tee connection tapping into this takes two hours not your kits like they have today lots of different tapes and no spril cutters someone turned on the power and it was turned off and locked out . We were in a fire ball and smoke
i lost my hearing in my right ear not due to the electrical shock but the blast in the tunnel .


Power was turned back on due to a mistake made by misreading the tag .
And also a green officer in a hurry to impress others.

Dont work it hot and dont trust anyone ever .

wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[flashlight]

Truthfully - :roll:you are better off working hot - naked.... Than what 'could happen' with your "TRIPPER"....

That is a great way to put it--really gets the point across !

 

[e57]

More than once, someone has suggested a flashing lamp as a load for your clamp-on to detect. You can work alone with it.

~
Thanks to your post, my Tripper is now in the trash It was the best thing I could think of in a pinch. I'd never heard of the flasher trick, but I will use that from now on. I have a circuit tracer, but it's not worth the plastic it's molded from nor can I afford a really good one at this point. Maybe I'll use the flasher to control a 120V fire bell... Yeah!

Now you're talking my language.... LOUD!

I use a screw in flasher and a 100W bulb.

Blue wire nuts and 2 screw connectors for OH service connections. Only in CA.

I have often wondered why someone has not made such an amimal combo'ed with a toner - at multiple voltages under 600V? Granted a 100W load is harder to find - I preffer the the large starting amperage of skil-saw or hole hog....

Yeah - the blue wire nut.... It's appauling isn't it?

It is situational and not necessarily related to voltage.

There are occaisions where I wouldn't even take a cover off without deenergizing.

There is a good number of things I would not touch - all about knowing your limitations.

 

[e57]

That is a great way to put it--really gets the point across !

Yeah - I got a way with words and images..... :roll:

 

[Don S.]

Shock and arc/flash are not the only dangers of working on live circuits. I know of an electrician who stated that he only got a little tingle from a 120V circuit, but it startled him enough to cause a fall from a 6ft ladder resulting in a broken arm...... Danger lurks around every corner.

 

[resistance]

The correct answer is not listed...

The factors of PPE, fault current calculations - NFPA 70E - Or putting your personal safety above your customers selfish whims.

That said I work live a bit - it depends on the OCP, situation, the equipment, and the evironment it might be in. Not necessarily the voltage or amperage of the equipment, although more care should be taken with higher voltages - but all should be treated with the same care. See table 130.7(C)(9)

And since I'm an 'employee' I can just say no anytime I want - or just out of principle....

I feel the same!!

 

[rwreuter]

I do service changes, 120/240v hot. I cut the drop and then reconnect it at the end of the day, but thats because my POCO is.... worthless.

Other than service changes.. I see no reason to work hot. It just isnt necessary in a resi situation.

~Matt

Unfortunately I have HAD to do that in an emergency situation and I DID NOT LIKE IT AT ALL. It was in a mobile home part and something or other happened so we couldn't cut the power. I guess to make matters worse we were standing on top of the mobile home.

I can you this, I won't do it again.