Cutler Hammer Transformers

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JasonEIT

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My lead engineer has had some bad experience with CH dry type transformers with regards to heat and noise.

I am reluctant to break up a contractor submittal of CH panelboards switchgear, transformers etc. so I am wondering if anyone else has an opinion on CH transformers specifically.

Thanks

JasonEIT
 
two cents

two cents

I work with Jason and shared with him my opinion that anecdotal evidence such as our colleague is basing his aversion to C-H dry types on, often yields incorrect conclusions.

As a former applications engineer for GE, I frequently encountered engineers who had developed a negative attitude towards a vendor (sometimes GE but just as often it's competitors) based solely on their own experience.

What was interesting to me was that in the end, each of the 4 seemingly had an equal number of protractors and detractors.

A possible exception might have been Siemens, who, at the time, was generally considered to be inferior not to mention the fact that they have a most unfortunate name.

Be that as it may, we'd certainly appreciate your shared experiences on the reliability and proper performance of C-H dry types and it's competitors.

Thanks

Mike
 
No, Formerly Westinghouse whose transformers are most likely manufactured in Juarez, Mexico for the past 20 plus years. Challenger was a name branded product manufactured by Westinghouse. Westinghouse Distribution protection and control business unit was purchased by Eaton and combined with the existing Cutler-Hammer business.
What I've learned over the years is that there some people who like to be identified and being opinionated. It could be that they would never by a Ford or they are a die-hard "Mopar" person and would have anything else. Some people a SqD people and everything else is junk. It's really quite entertaining to watch someone how gets some authority when influencing or making decisions.
A was a C-H dry type transformer application engineer for 4 years and with Westinghouse before that and I enjoy reading some of these posts.
 
Md, I'm surprised you didn't post your statement about pulling the trans. and sending it to the machine shop.

Square D manufacturing plant is/was closing there trans. plant and going for the Border, although they do have a parent plant making other devices in Raleigh.

What gets me is how many Trans. aren't bolted to the Pad there sitting on. Sounds like they need a good wrench over and or an Isolation Pad.
 
Personally reference to either temperature or noise is relative and doesn't mean a thing unless the noise is measured in 'dB' and the temperature measured in either Fahrenheit or Celsius. I found it to be very rare that these values are given when by someone who complains that his transformer is running hot or making too much noise.
It's like shooting at shadows. There is no way to address either of these issues.
Transformers are manufactured to meet maximum NEMA ST20 noise requirement based upon a given group of KVA ranges. The dB levels are in the 45-60db for transformers in the range of 10-500kva, the specific db in dependent upon the kva.
Most ventilated transformers are built with 220degC insulation, are capable of operating in 30degC ambient, 40degC max continually. They are allowed to then operate at 150degC rise above that which totals 190degC.
Encapsulated transformers are usually 180degC (185degC) with a 115degC temperature rise. This means that the enclosure on and encapsulated transformers could be 40degC + 115degC= 155degC or 311degF. A ventilated could be 40degC + 150degdegC= 190degC or 394degF. Of course you don't have direct access to the core and coil of a ventilated transformer but it is and indicator of how warm the enclosure can get an as to why you never obstruct the air flow around the transformer.
Other questions are how hot is a motor breaker supposed to get?
It is very difficult to address this issue with someone who doesn't have the slightest clue as to what the standards are.
And, reading directions? The core and coil of a ventilated transformer sit on isolation pads. For shipping purposes the core and coil and bolted down which the bolts must be removed during the installation process.
Hard piping the transformer and how and where the transformer is mounted can amplify and transmit noise. Rooms with reflective wall can also reflect noise.
In addition, when one expects an area to be very quiet a transformer that make 50db of noise can appear to be very loud.
 
Don't have a problem with Cutler Hammer. But I have a major problem with GE "Transformore". As someone pointed out on this forum, they have taken a device with no moving parts that hardly ever fails and installed a bunch of little fans like you have in your PC. If one of these little pieces of junk fails, the transformer can overheat and will shut down. It has a internal disconnect with temp sensor.

I had to rewrite my spec to prohibit fan cooled transformers. I can just imagine an owner wanting to know why I spec'd a "fancy" transformer that shut his whole facility down because of a $10 fan.

GE rep tells me that this will be the only type they offer in some KW ratings. Way to go GE??????? He said they did this to meet new government efficiency standards and to get a high kw rating in a smaller package. The flaw in this thinking is that most engineers allocate enough space in the electrical room for the manufacture in his specs with the largest gear. You never know which manufacturer your going to get. If you layout a room around smaller GE gear and get bigger Square D gear your in deep #$%&.
 
If you look close you will find that many other manufactures transformers are actually ABB transformers with another manufactures "skin".

AS far as reliability goes, testing hundreds of dry type transformers, I have never noticed any differences between manufactures, most problems found from acceptance testing are from improper installation by the contractor.
 
Abb

Abb

ABB doesn't make the type of transformers in question. Although the discussion may have evolved a bit, the initial question, if unclear, was on ordinary step down dry types. i.e. 480delta to 208Y/120V.

IS the comment regarding GE putting fans on dry type transformers germaine to e.g. 45KVA, 75KVA, dry types?

Mike
 
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