CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
- Thread starter al
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Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
I have seen this handled two ways.
I have seen the plate cut as you described (although cutting plastic plates is a tough one, so a special plate was used instead).
I have also seen a groove cut in the trim so that the plate extends into the trim.
I have seen this handled two ways.
I have seen the plate cut as you described (although cutting plastic plates is a tough one, so a special plate was used instead).
I have also seen a groove cut in the trim so that the plate extends into the trim.
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
See 110.12
C) Integrity of Electrical Equipment and Connections. Internal parts of electrical equipment, including busbars, wiring terminals, insulators, and other surfaces, shall not be damaged or contaminated by foreign materials such as paint, plaster, cleaners, abrasives, or corrosive residues. There shall be no damaged parts that may adversely affect safe operation or mechanical strength of the equipment such as parts that are broken; bent; CUT; or deteriorated by corrosion, chemical action, or overheating.
See 110.12
C) Integrity of Electrical Equipment and Connections. Internal parts of electrical equipment, including busbars, wiring terminals, insulators, and other surfaces, shall not be damaged or contaminated by foreign materials such as paint, plaster, cleaners, abrasives, or corrosive residues. There shall be no damaged parts that may adversely affect safe operation or mechanical strength of the equipment such as parts that are broken; bent; CUT; or deteriorated by corrosion, chemical action, or overheating.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
gregory,
I think that is a real push. I don't think that cutting the width of the plate would "adversely affect safe operation or mechanical strength". I also don't think that a switch plate is "electrical equipment"
Don
gregory,
I think that is a real push. I don't think that cutting the width of the plate would "adversely affect safe operation or mechanical strength". I also don't think that a switch plate is "electrical equipment"
Don
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
Al I have done it and have seen it done many times, it all depends on the look and if you knew about the oversized trim, if it is a multimllion dollar house and the switch plates have to be cut, then you may have a problem, if you knew about the oversized trim, then you have a big problem, backcharges may apply if the boxes have to be moved in order for the plate to clear the trim, I have seen it happen.
[ September 10, 2003, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: jro ]
Al I have done it and have seen it done many times, it all depends on the look and if you knew about the oversized trim, if it is a multimllion dollar house and the switch plates have to be cut, then you may have a problem, if you knew about the oversized trim, then you have a big problem, backcharges may apply if the boxes have to be moved in order for the plate to clear the trim, I have seen it happen.
[ September 10, 2003, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: jro ]
G
Guest
Guest
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
I have trimmed a few with a fine saw and belt sanded the edges. They looked iffy to me but nobody complained.
Somebody planned poorly. Were there plans drawn?
../Wayne
I have trimmed a few with a fine saw and belt sanded the edges. They looked iffy to me but nobody complained.
Somebody planned poorly. Were there plans drawn?
../Wayne
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
I think 90% of us have had to cut them before. The only additional advice I would give is buy the nylon plates, not the plastic ones. And BTW: buy a couple extra for when you mess up!
I think 90% of us have had to cut them before. The only additional advice I would give is buy the nylon plates, not the plastic ones. And BTW: buy a couple extra for when you mess up!
gary
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Retired electrical contractor / general contractor
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
If there is a tile setter on the job, ask if you can use his wet saw. The diamond blade can slice through a brittle plastic plate like a hot knife through butter. The sliding saw guide makes it easy to make square cuts. Piece of cake to slice 1/8" off the side or end of a plate. A belt sander does a fair job of trimming a plate but this is almost impossible to do with a hacksaw. Sometimes you can use a screwdriver or flat bar to move a nail-on box over just far enough to avoid cutting the plate. Use a drywall saw to clear the way on the outboard side of the box and be careful not to go too far.
If there is a tile setter on the job, ask if you can use his wet saw. The diamond blade can slice through a brittle plastic plate like a hot knife through butter. The sliding saw guide makes it easy to make square cuts. Piece of cake to slice 1/8" off the side or end of a plate. A belt sander does a fair job of trimming a plate but this is almost impossible to do with a hacksaw. Sometimes you can use a screwdriver or flat bar to move a nail-on box over just far enough to avoid cutting the plate. Use a drywall saw to clear the way on the outboard side of the box and be careful not to go too far.
cselectric
Senior Member
- Location
- Wisconsin
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
So, it would be safe to say that cutting a wall plate would violate said UL listing. Is that the road you were leading us down Bennie
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
When I was active as an inspector, I would not approve a plate being cut. I used the UL label issue for substantiation. Then I was hit by the factory modified special plates. I quit writing this as a violation, but made a notation on the final inspection report, that became public record.
I had one home where expensive countertops were installed. All of the kitchen receptacle plates had about 1/2" cut off the bottom. The house was in the million dollar range. I signed the final only after the owner accepted them as they were.
If I were the contractor, I would not want my name on the project, inspector approval or not.
When I was active as an inspector, I would not approve a plate being cut. I used the UL label issue for substantiation. Then I was hit by the factory modified special plates. I quit writing this as a violation, but made a notation on the final inspection report, that became public record.
I had one home where expensive countertops were installed. All of the kitchen receptacle plates had about 1/2" cut off the bottom. The house was in the million dollar range. I signed the final only after the owner accepted them as they were.
If I were the contractor, I would not want my name on the project, inspector approval or not.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
Bennie: I understand your stance and UL listing, but I would not hesitate to use 90.4 to waive it, if it covered the entire box.
Bennie: I understand your stance and UL listing, but I would not hesitate to use 90.4 to waive it, if it covered the entire box.
How does the owner validate the installation? Is the owner the authority having jurisdiction? I have this argument come up all the time with owners, but the fact of the matter is...it will not hold up in court.
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
Ryan: My family is heavily involved in real estate. A cut wall plate is a sign of poor craftsmanship, and will have a negative impact on the sale of a house.
I don't see a safety issue, unless hurting my eyes fits the definition.
I feel if the owner wants to look at the butchered plate for the length of the mortgage, it is his choice. Also he will take the hit when trying to sell the place.
I claim the owner has authority due to the financial obligation.
Ryan: My family is heavily involved in real estate. A cut wall plate is a sign of poor craftsmanship, and will have a negative impact on the sale of a house.
I don't see a safety issue, unless hurting my eyes fits the definition.
I feel if the owner wants to look at the butchered plate for the length of the mortgage, it is his choice. Also he will take the hit when trying to sell the place.
I claim the owner has authority due to the financial obligation.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
Bennie: Thanks for your reply. I have a hard time calling something like that for the reason you state. I think it is a fine line before crossing into malicous prosecution, from a legal point of view. I am not trying to be argumentitive or slandering towards you, God knows you know the code better than I do, so I hope you don't take it that way.
Bennie: Thanks for your reply. I have a hard time calling something like that for the reason you state. I think it is a fine line before crossing into malicous prosecution, from a legal point of view. I am not trying to be argumentitive or slandering towards you, God knows you know the code better than I do, so I hope you don't take it that way.
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
Ryan: I had an incident where I signed off on a cut wall plate. The owner went after the electrical contractor to move the switch. The contractor refused, basing his decision on the fact it was approved by the inspector.
The owner called city hall, the switch was moved.
Guess who moved it?
Ryan: I had an incident where I signed off on a cut wall plate. The owner went after the electrical contractor to move the switch. The contractor refused, basing his decision on the fact it was approved by the inspector.
The owner called city hall, the switch was moved.
Guess who moved it?
G
Guest
Guest
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
We are not held to perfection but we are supposed to do work in a workmanlike fashion according to standard trade practices. In thinking about cutting 1/2" off the bottom of a coverplate it's not all aesthetic: If you have to cut 1/2" off the bottom, then the box was set at least 1/2" lower than it should be. I see another issue here: The yoke on the device (receptacle or switch) will either have to be trimmed or buried. Neither solution is acceptable in my mind. Taking a 1/4" off the side is one thing, but taking a full 1/2" off the top or bottom of a plate would indicate to me that the device yoke will be notched into the wall covering, or the yoke will be severely trimmed. The device retaining screw may not even be accessible. Your nomenclature may vary.
We are not held to perfection but we are supposed to do work in a workmanlike fashion according to standard trade practices. In thinking about cutting 1/2" off the bottom of a coverplate it's not all aesthetic: If you have to cut 1/2" off the bottom, then the box was set at least 1/2" lower than it should be. I see another issue here: The yoke on the device (receptacle or switch) will either have to be trimmed or buried. Neither solution is acceptable in my mind. Taking a 1/4" off the side is one thing, but taking a full 1/2" off the top or bottom of a plate would indicate to me that the device yoke will be notched into the wall covering, or the yoke will be severely trimmed. The device retaining screw may not even be accessible. Your nomenclature may vary.
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
Wayne: You are correct. The electrical contractor was essentially correct in his elevation. The back splash, of the countertop, was higher than expected.
The plaster ears, on the receptacles, had to be removed to allow the bottom screw to hit the hole.
I just measured a box and plate. one half inch is necessary to allow clearance for the plate.
A case can be made that cutting the side of a plate will often make an open passage to the wood stud. There would be no heat transfer protection. Although; what is the heat rating of a wall plate? 30 seconds or less?
Wayne: You are correct. The electrical contractor was essentially correct in his elevation. The back splash, of the countertop, was higher than expected.
The plaster ears, on the receptacles, had to be removed to allow the bottom screw to hit the hole.
I just measured a box and plate. one half inch is necessary to allow clearance for the plate.
A case can be made that cutting the side of a plate will often make an open passage to the wood stud. There would be no heat transfer protection. Although; what is the heat rating of a wall plate? 30 seconds or less?
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
Turning thoughts back to the mechanics of shaping the cover plate. . . I've found my tool of choice is a small grinder with a 36 or 24 grit sanding disc. I'll step outside to help keep the dust down, if necessary. This is one of many uses for this tool.
Turning thoughts back to the mechanics of shaping the cover plate. . . I've found my tool of choice is a small grinder with a 36 or 24 grit sanding disc. I'll step outside to help keep the dust down, if necessary. This is one of many uses for this tool.
Re: CUTTING WALL PLATES TO FIT
Don
Check out the definition of equipment. "Equipment. A general term including material, fittings, devices, appliances, luminaires (fixtures), apparatus, and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.
I think the part that says "material" or apparatus" applies to switch plates.
Don
Check out the definition of equipment. "Equipment. A general term including material, fittings, devices, appliances, luminaires (fixtures), apparatus, and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.
I think the part that says "material" or apparatus" applies to switch plates.
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