Damp location recessed lights

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I am not sure what Fiona wants to know.... we already said that it has passed inspection in many areas. Can I guarantee that it will pass everywhere in the country? NO but I bet the failure would be few and far between. I work in 5 inspection areas and this would pass in all of them by all the inspectors in each area, as far as I know. I never heard of a red tag for this
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Can I guarantee that it will pass everywhere in the country? NO
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I agree, neither can I and an AHJ somewhere might fail it.

but I bet the failure would be few and far between. I work in 5 inspection areas and this would pass in all of them by all the inspectors in each area, as far as I know. I never heard of a red tag for this
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But that is the reality in most cases. :cool:
 
FionaZuppa said:
so you basically puncture the membrane when attaching the boards?

me still would like to know what AHJ says for this specific install.
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The nail goes thru the decking material, thru the membrane and into the joist. The membrane seals (it is designed to do so) around the fastener where punctured by fastener- It is pretty moisture proof.

Want proof that the ops situation will be fairly dry? Many old houses have no insulation, have wood siding, and the only moisture barrier is nailed on 30# felt ( the purpose of which has been generally replaced in a few apps by modern products similar to that in the op)- yet there is no problem w/ the nm or mold.

Maybe the op already knows what his ahj wants, and is just looking for some general advice (what others use, experiences etc...) b/c this type of installation is a first for him.
 
user 100 said:
The nail goes thru the decking material, thru the membrane and into the joist. The membrane seals (it is designed to do so) around the fastener where punctured by fastener- It is pretty moisture proof.

Want proof that the ops situation will be fairly dry? Many old houses have no insulation, have wood siding, and the only moisture barrier is nailed on 30# felt ( the purpose of which has been generally replaced in a few apps by modern products similar to that in the op)- yet there is no problem w/ the nm or mold.

Maybe the op already knows what his ahj wants, and is just looking for some general advice (what others use, experiences etc...) b/c this type of installation is a first for him.
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most roofing systems are designed to cover fasteners, some have exposed fasteners using rubber (epdm or the like) washers under fastener head. leaving a nail or screw exposed that punches all the way down into the joist means water can and will seep from top into the wood.

the old ways are typically not allowed any longer.

whatever the system is, i would like to hear what the AHJ has to say about it.
 
FionaZuppa said:
most roofing systems are designed to cover fasteners, some have exposed fasteners using rubber (epdm or the like) washers under fastener head. leaving a nail or screw exposed that punches all the way down into the joist means water can and will seep from top into the wood.

.
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If the electrician is getting an inspection on this new deck you can bet there will be a building inspection for the construction of it as well. I bet that both inspectors will be fine with the system.


the old ways are typically not allowed any longer
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And new ways exist regardless of you being aware of them or approving of them. :p

whatever the system is, i would like to hear what the AHJ has to say about it.
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I would like a million dollars, I think we are both going to be waiting a long time. :D
 
Dennis Alwon said:
That is like saying you puncture a metal roof when you fasten it down. Nope that is dealt with also

BTW, I have seen these installs where there is an actual metal pan in the joist space that have a slight grade away to the outside just in case any water gets in. I have never seen an issue with it.

Seriously if you are really worried about nm cable in a damp location then you should worry more about the rolls we see everyday in the back of peoples pickups. Inside the van is dry but would you consider that damp location? All that wire sitting there for weeks at a time. It really is not an issue

Honestly, I am not saying to do this by any means but I have seen NM cable buried in the ground and it had been there over 20 years without an issue. I am not talking about inside conduit either-- directly in the ground
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Direct buried will usually see less "wetness" then in a raceway, unless you have high ground water levels.
 
iwire said:
If the electrician is getting an inspection on this new deck you can bet there will be a building inspection for the construction of it as well. I bet that both inspectors will be fine with the system.
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the structure will get inspected 1st.

but even before all that, if its being permitted then a application with design would have been submitted. in my locale the AHJ will look for specifics on everything before they issue the permit. inspections are usually just to make sure of what was approved by permitting is being done according to that plan. this is why its a tad confusing, the electrician is being asked to bid the work, yet doesnt even know if NM would or would not be allowed? what does the electrical schedule portion of the permit application say? or, is the electrician being asked to provide electrical plans for the permitting process? in either case, the AHJ will review prior to issuing permit. as described, the areas where wiring will be are subject to uncontrolled atmosphere which means moisture will condense at some point (depending on the location / zone, etc). to me it sounds like a damp location, but then again, what does the AHJ call it?
 
FionaZuppa said:
the structure will get inspected 1st.

but even before all that, if its being permitted then a application with design would have been submitted. in my locale the AHJ will look for specifics on everything before they issue the permit. inspections are usually just to make sure of what was approved by permitting is being done according to that plan. this is why its a tad confusing, the electrician is being asked to bid the work, yet doesnt even know if NM would or would not be allowed? what does the electrical schedule portion of the permit application say? or, is the electrician being asked to provide electrical plans for the permitting process? in either case, the AHJ will review prior to issuing permit. as described, the areas where wiring will be are subject to uncontrolled atmosphere which means moisture will condense at some point (depending on the location / zone, etc). to me it sounds like a damp location, but then again, what does the AHJ call it?
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Not all AHJ's work the same way. Not all electrical AHJ's have much if any association to the building AHJ either.
 
kwired said:
Not all AHJ's work the same way. Not all electrical AHJ's have much if any association to the building AHJ either.
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doesnt really matter, the structure has to be there 1st. even with separate ahj for the electrical work the structure will come into play.
 
FionaZuppa said:
doesnt really matter, the structure has to be there 1st. even with separate ahj for the electrical work the structure will come into play.
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In rural areas here there is no building inspector, there however is a state inspector that inspects electrical only. Building are issued, but the concern is mostly over environmental impact and if you are building a dwelling you get little or no resistance at getting a permit, build a 10,000 head cattle operation, fertilizer plant, or (recently) wind farms, and you will get some resistance to getting your building permit.
 
FionaZuppa said:
the structure will get inspected 1st.

but even before all that, if its being permitted then a application with design would have been submitted. in my locale the AHJ will look for specifics on everything before they issue the permit. inspections are usually just to make sure of what was approved by permitting is being done according to that plan. this is why its a tad confusing, the electrician is being asked to bid the work, yet doesnt even know if NM would or would not be allowed? what does the electrical schedule portion of the permit application say? or, is the electrician being asked to provide electrical plans for the permitting process? in either case, the AHJ will review prior to issuing permit. as described, the areas where wiring will be are subject to uncontrolled atmosphere which means moisture will condense at some point (depending on the location / zone, etc). to me it sounds like a damp location, but then again, what does the AHJ call it?
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A ton of assumptions on your part that may or may not be true depending on the area.

Bottom line is what the OP described is commonly allowed.
 
iwire said:
Bottom line is what the OP described is commonly allowed.
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but you dont seem to read my posts. i have already agreed with you and others that in some cases it is allowed. the decking as described does not sound like a good waterproof system. and what i have said maybe 6-7 times already is i would like to hear what the ahj has to say about this specific wiring job.
 
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