Dang steel guys!

[hillbilly1]

Plant owner called me today, and said somebody cut the uffer rebar off flush with the slab on the new building, and wanted to know what to do! Looks like I will have to break out the coring bit, he doesn’t want the concrete jacked up around it!

 

[Fred B]

Drive Rods?
We never get to use an ufer up here. Someone always doing something similar.

 

[roger]

Drive Rods?
We never get to use an ufer up here. Someone always doing something similar.

The problem with that approach is that unless there is a local amendment to 250.50 the CEE has to be used because it is present.

 

[Fred B]

The problem with that approach is that unless there is a local amendment to 250.50 the CEE has to be used because it is present.

If its cut off, is it present? 250.50 exception.

 

[roger]

Yes it's present, maybe not accessible or available but it is present. NC did the right thing and amended it to say accessible, but the NEC hasn't.

 

[Fred B]

Yes it's present, maybe not accessible or available but it is present. NC did the right thing and amended it to say accessible, but the NEC hasn't.

This argument make the exception invalid as almost without exception the rebar in the footer will qualify because of how it's tied. Exception: "not accessible for use without disturbing the concrete."

 

[roger]

This argument make the exception invalid as almost without exception the rebar in the footer will qualify because of how it's tied.

The exception is addressing existing buildings.

Exception: Concrete-encased electrodes of existing buildings
or structures shall not be required to be part of the
grounding electrode system where the steel reinforcing bars
or rods are not accessible for use without disturbing the concrete

 

[infinity]

Just use the coring bit and patch around it when you're done.

 

[Strathead]

Yes it's present, maybe not accessible or available but it is present. NC did the right thing and amended it to say accessible, but the NEC hasn't.

I disagree that this is the right thing. They might as well say "if you feel like it." Or go back to the way it used to be, optional not mandatory.

 

[hillbilly1]

Just use the coring bit and patch around it when you're done.

Done, steel guy did not know what it was, and said it was in his way. He apologized for cutting it off.

 

[roger]

I disagree that this is the right thing. They might as well say "if you feel like it." Or go back to the way it used to be, optional not mandatory.

Yes, that's basically what it's saying and for no more than it does it's the right call.

 

[hillbilly1]

Makes me more money! Every time I pull my hammer drill off the truck, it’s $125! Harbor Freight super SDS drill has already paid for itself in less than 6 months!

 

[kwired]

Done, steel guy did not know what it was, and said it was in his way. He apologized for cutting it off.

NEC changed the wording almost 20 years ago to the way it reads now. Was this his first project ever?

I think they did good when changing it. Before the change CEE's were almost never used even if there was qualifying CEE present. Almost every footing is a qualifying CEE. Slab on grade building might be about only time you won't find one, though many those have an actual footing around perimeter anymore. Small utility shed might be where it won't be so common.

 

[ggunn]

The exception is addressing existing buildings.

Well, the building is existing now, innit?

 

[hillbilly1]

NEC changed the wording almost 20 years ago to the way it reads now. Was this his first project ever?

I think they did good when changing it. Before the change CEE's were almost never used even if there was qualifying CEE present. Almost every footing is a qualifying CEE. Slab on grade building might be about only time you won't find one, though many those have an actual footing around perimeter anymore. Small utility shed might be where it won't be so common.

Until we started getting inspections, I’m probably the only local contractor that put them in. I’ve been putting them in since the 80’s. It is a Walmart spec on their buildings, the service, and every transformer location throughout the building. I even have one on my own house I built in 92’.

 

[Fred B]

The exception is addressing existing buildings.

Yes, but by time the inspector is called, the building "IS" existing. And, I Yet to see one myself.

 

[hillbilly1]

Our inspector is looking for it on residential footer inspections, though I don’t know how many electricians know you don’t have to put copper in the slab, that if you can turn it up in a wall that is accessible, you can tie in there. That way you don’t have to worry about the copperheads cutting and stealing your wire.

 

[roger]

Yes, but by time the inspector is called, the building "IS" existing. And, I Yet to see one myself.

And if you wait long enough to call for an inspection you can also fish all the wiring using that logic.

 

[Fred B]

And if you wait long enough to call for an inspection you can also fish all the wiring using that logic.

Not saying it's right, but just what I see.

 

[Another C10]

, steel guy did not know what it was, and said it was in his way.

that's a bummer, next time I'd attach a ribbon stating Electrical , do not cut