Dead front has gap.

G

Green digger

Member
Location
Bay Area
Occupation
Excavation
Hello, I hope to get a little help from this forum.
Recently had a new 200A Eaton main breaker panel installed on our personal residence. This is the 20 / 42 panel. Probably a very common residential panel.
Problem, when cycling the breakers to off after tripping or simply shutting one down to work on a circuit, the breaker physically pops out of the dead front cover. Thumb pushes right to the off position, breaker cantilevers out of the buss bar.
At that crazy point one could simply push it back in or pull it all the way out.
Of course leaving a large enough hole creating an extreme hazard.
I was on the phone with Eaton tech for several hours several different times. My conclusion is the factory installed main 200A breaker is not sitting flat in its position. This causes the dead front to bulge, bulge enough to leave the breakers unsecured. I have a photo, but I’m new here and cannot figure out how to post it.
 
Green digger said:
Hello, I hope to get a little help from this forum.
Recently had a new 200A Eaton main breaker panel installed on our personal residence. This is the 20 / 42 panel. Probably a very common residential panel.
Problem, when cycling the breakers to off after tripping or simply shutting one down to work on a circuit, the breaker physically pops out of the dead front cover. Thumb pushes right to the off position, breaker cantilevers out of the buss bar.
At that crazy point one could simply push it back in or pull it all the way out.
Of course leaving a large enough hole creating an extreme hazard.
I was on the phone with Eaton tech for several hours several different times. My conclusion is the factory installed main 200A breaker is not sitting flat in its position. This causes the dead front to bulge, bulge enough to leave the breakers unsecured. I have a photo, but I’m new here and cannot figure out how to post it.
Click to expand...

https://imgur.com/a/Qu4xK5Z
 
I think there's been a general consensus that the quality of residential load centers has gone down in the last several years. I frequently find that the breakers don't line up well with the punch outs in the dead front and you have to pry them into position to get them to come through the dead front and be held in place like they should. Another possibility is just that the dead front isn't installed correctly.
 
electrofelon said:
I think there's been a general consensus that the quality of residential load centers has gone down in the last several years. I frequently find that the breakers don't line up well with the punch outs in the dead front and you have to pry them into position to get them to come through the dead front and be held in place like they should. Another possibility is just that the dead front isn't installed correctly.
Click to expand...
Hi Electro,
Thanks for the reply.
Electricians I know and work with buy Siemens panels now. Eaton not good anymore. But MTW in the post above suggested a front photo. So I have one. Unfortunately it doesn’t show much. And the sparky gal that swapped out the FPE panel for us doesn’t have decades of experience. Do she didn’t catch the obvious problem and the city inspector didn’t either.
Please excuse the state of the wires in the box. She simply put things back how she found them. So I’ve traded one danger FPE panel for another, a dead front hazard.
https://imgur.com/a/qmapRye
 
Eaton Tech sent me blueprints of the correct dead front. I have a micrometer, will remove it again and measure it to compare the specs. Could be the wrong DF in there.
 
OP man not trying to beat you down but this is honestly a non issue on the list of issues. I haven't seen a panel that lined up perfectly since 2020. I'm even tapping the cover screws since they miss the hole drill our completely. This is from normal name brand equipment also.
 
From what I could see from the front photo's you submitted, the main breaker appears to be protruding from the dead front cover punched opening properly. I see the corner you were complaining of protruding of the main breaker protruding as it should.

You will notice that the main breaker is connected to the branch breaker bus assembly with metal bus straps, meaning there could be some adjustment between the main breaker mounting and the branch bus assembly.

What I don't see is any of the branch breakers protruding through the dead front on the right side as they should, what that implies is that the main branch buss assembly is mounted too far to the right of the enclosure. That leaves too much space on the left side of the assembly, allowing the breakers room to tilt outward from the bus assembly, and holds the dead front too far away from the rear of the enclosure.

Many panel styles have an adjustment on the mounting means between the branch bus assembly and the enclosure back. Unfortunately your photos cut off the mounting means on the top and bottom of the branch bus assembly.

The dead front appears to fit the enclosure very closely on both sides, so my guess is that the dead front is likely not the problem, but is likely the positional mounting of the branch bus assembly within the enclosure. Try to get some additional photos showing the mounting means of the branch bus assembly to see what adjustment ability it has if any. take the tape off and show how much of a gap you have on the left side, that will tell how far the interior needs to be shifted over. Take the photos in bright daylight so it is easier to see the fit up details and the clearance gaps and what adjustment is available if any.
 
electrofelon said:
I think there's been a general consensus that the quality of residential load centers has gone down in the last several years. I frequently find that the breakers don't line up well with the punch outs in the dead front and you have to pry them into position to get them to come through the dead front and be held in place like they should. Another possibility is just that the dead front isn't installed correctly.
Click to expand...
MTW said:
From what I could see from the front photo's you submitted, the main breaker appears to be protruding from the dead front cover punched opening properly. I see the corner you were complaining of protruding of the main breaker protruding as it should.

You will notice that the main breaker is connected to the branch breaker bus assembly with metal bus straps, meaning there could be some adjustment between the main breaker mounting and the branch bus assembly.

What I don't see is any of the branch breakers protruding through the dead front on the right side as they should, what that implies is that the main branch buss assembly is mounted too far to the right of the enclosure. That leaves too much space on the left side of the assembly, allowing the breakers room to tilt outward from the bus assembly, and holds the dead front too far away from the rear of the enclosure.

Many panel styles have an adjustment on the mounting means between the branch bus assembly and the enclosure back. Unfortunately your photos cut off the mounting means on the top and bottom of the branch bus assembly.

The dead front appears to fit the enclosure very closely on both sides, so my guess is that the dead front is likely not the problem, but is likely the positional mounting of the branch bus assembly within the enclosure. Try to get some additional photos showing the mounting means of the branch bus assembly to see what adjustment ability it has if any. take the tape off and show how much of a gap you have on the left side, that will tell how far the interior needs to be shifted over. Take the photos in bright daylight so it is easier to see the fit up details and the clearance gaps and what adjustment is available if any.
Click to expand...
Thank you MTW,
Great information. I have a meeting with the installer Tuesday. She and I will look at this together, I will measure the DF as instructed by Eaton. (Compare with the blueprints they sent me) I’ll get more photos too. I am leaning towards some adjustment or hold down screws to render the panel safe. I’ll remove the tape too, temporarily. Here is one photo from last week. I suggested to the Eaton tech that if the breaker tabs were under the connectors (buss straps) it would bring the breaker into a lower profile position. It is exactly at the high point of the main breaker position that creates the bulge in the DF, not allowing the DF to effectively close the gap and physically sit on top of the breaker as it should. I’ll be back here in a few days with more info
Thanks again for taking an interest in this.
IMG_5229.jpeg
 
Is it possible the main breaker was removed and reinstalled? Maybe the connecting bus bars should be in front of the breaker like they are on the panel buss?
 
Thanks Jim and Hill,
The installer and Eaton both said the main breaker comes from the factory installed in the panel. Eaton told me the connectors are correct. I don’t believe them. Could be so, but my eyes don’t lie. I only thought the breaker tabs should be under the connectors, but putting the offsets at the top is a good call, reversed offsets does seem to lead to the same situation. That the main breaker is positioned too high and doesn’t allow the DF to sit lower and cover the breakers. I’m gonna go to a supply store and crack open a new one in a box. See how an identical one is built.
Maybe even the breaker tabs should be under the connectors and the offsets on top. I picture a new inexperienced employee getting things mixed up during assembly.
 
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