Dead Front protection for fuse box

[sfav8r]

We need to provide dead-front protection for this panel. The protection I have seen on these previously, looks like heavy black cardboard, maybe 3/16 of an inch thick. Does anyone know what this material is? Is it available anywhere?

Thanks

 

[mdshunk]

I've just put padlock hasp on them and a notice to only be serviced by qualified persons. Same with the wooden panelboards with the Frankenstein switches. Your panel is missing the federal bushings and has fused neutrals, so putting in some fish paper insulators in something like that would be a little bit like putting gold trim in a Chevette.

 

[aftershock]

I have seen panels like that here. Had one trouble call with a loose neutral. Did not know at the time that some older fuse boxes also fused the neutral. I eventually found the fuse box behind a large picture on a stairwell landing.

Back to the OP. Locking the lid shut would work. We have been able to secure the lids with screws in some instances.

 

[sfav8r]

putting in some fish paper insulators in something like that would be a little bit like putting gold trim in a Chevette.

You've seen our service vehicles? I thought the gold was a nice touch.

I don't believe locking the covers will do the job. The occupant is required to have access to the fuses to their living space, so if I lock them out for their safety, I'm not allowing them access. We are going to put type S fuses and solid plugs on the neutrals. There is going to be a condo conversion here after the owner (our client) gets it through planning, so were just looking for something safe and legal for 6-12 months.

 

[mdshunk]

Who's stupid requirement is that? I sure wouldn't want to be the guy on the hook for cobbling something together that will make it only marginally safer.

 

[e57]

We need to provide dead-front protection for this panel. The protection I have seen on these previously, looks like heavy black cardboard, maybe 3/16 of an inch thick. Does anyone know what this material is? Is it available anywhere?

Thanks

Myers Sheet Metal Box - if you do not know of these guys yet - you should..... (Yes "Myers" of the former "Myers Electric" when they broke up eons ago) They're a small metal shop now that specializes in electrical housings and refurb enclosures - as well as some light manufacturing of specialty gear. They will make anything you can draw a picture of for a nominal fee of course. I have had them make all kinds of panel covers over last fifteen the years. (Haven't been down there in some time - but due soon for a project)


Get and give good dimentions, and bring a check or cash to: (no credit cards)

Myers Sheet Metal Box Inc.
447 10th St
San Francisco, CA , 94103-4303
Phone: 415-431-9934
FAX: 415-431-8277

Anyway - unless you can get the bevels right (if needed) to get behind the porciline, and still have mounting in front of the conductors - you might want to go for a non-metalic cover. Say in HDPE - and that can be found not far from Myers at TAP plastics. Otherwise with a metal cover - you may put someone at risk of shock or short if the cover is not made just right..... Imagine replacing a fuse and how you fingers will be....

And as we both know - condo conversion can be a royal pain, 6-12 months may be an understatement unless these people also won the lottery too. (Lottery for the conversion) Otherwise - I have known applications that have languished for many years. It may be a wiser idea to gut it, and screw the thing shut as a j-box - which is what I often do. I can't tell how the thing is fed - but often they are fed with black iron conduit for the feeder, and can be re-pulled most often. If it's K&T fed - figer a way to back feed the circuits, and still screw that shut....

Also - if you plan to keep this for any period of time after you touch it - put some S-fuse rejectors in there! Ditch the edison/medium base fuses.

 

[kbsparky]

Wouldn't it be easier/cheaper/quicker to simply just replace that outdated box with a small 4-circuit breaker box? Seems like a no-brainer to me ...

 

[e57]

Wouldn't it be easier/cheaper/quicker to simply just replace that outdated box with a small 4-circuit breaker box? Seems like a no-brainer to me ...

If the feeder is in K&T - that could be a yes or no. A condo conversion would require the removal of this panel along with a number of other improvements from other trades. IMO the owners are just being cheap to not do it up-front. But may have to re-do the feeder, and service - in which they would anyway - they could spend the mulla now, or later - but may not be able to extract the money for a multi-unit service out of the neighbors now. (Typical....)

 

[sfav8r]

Myers Sheet Metal Box - if you do not know of these guys yet - you should..... (Yes "Myers" of the former "Myers Electric" when they broke up eons ago) They're a small metal shop now that specializes in electrical housings and refurb enclosures - as well as some light manufacturing of specialty gear. They will make anything you can draw a picture of for a nominal fee of course. I have had them make all kinds of panel covers over last fifteen the years. (Haven't been down there in some time - but due soon for a project)


Get and give good dimentions, and bring a check or cash to: (no credit cards)

Myers Sheet Metal Box Inc.
447 10th St
San Francisco, CA , 94103-4303
Phone: 415-431-9934
FAX: 415-431-8277

Anyway - unless you can get the bevels right (if needed) to get behind the porciline, and still have mounting in front of the conductors - you might want to go for a non-metalic cover. Say in HDPE - and that can be found not far from Myers at TAP plastics. Otherwise with a metal cover - you may put someone at risk of shock or short if the cover is not made just right..... Imagine replacing a fuse and how you fingers will be....

And as we both know - condo conversion can be a royal pain, 6-12 months may be an understatement unless these people also won the lottery too. (Lottery for the conversion) Otherwise - I have known applications that have languished for many years. It may be a wiser idea to gut it, and screw the thing shut as a j-box - which is what I often do. I can't tell how the thing is fed - but often they are fed with black iron conduit for the feeder, and can be re-pulled most often. If it's K&T fed - figer a way to back feed the circuits, and still screw that shut....

Also - if you plan to keep this for any period of time after you touch it - put some S-fuse rejectors in there! Ditch the edison/medium base fuses.

Great info. Thanks!

Yeah, they already have the approval for the conversion. They are doing other remodeling at the same time and they are just waiting for planning.

 

[chicar]

I think this is one of those jobs where jimmy rigging is not an option. Install a 4 circuit breaker panel or update the service on this condo now,not later. I know money is hard to come by but for safty reasons above all else,it needs to be replaced. A tenant could be seriously injured trying to replace a fuse in that panel.

 

[e57]

A tenant could be seriously injured trying to replace a fuse in that panel.

That thing has been there for ~90 years - and so many more like it - no bodies have piled up... Safe no... But not a killer even if the sides of each hot are energized. But - yeah - it's not a condo YET and by code they could keep it exactly 'as is' untill it is manipulated by adding a circuit - which is not possible.... And the condo conversion will take care of this thing once and for all. But usually with $20-50K+ of other work to be done with it - sometimes triggering a full remodel. Many people wait to see where they stand after the first round of building inspections in the process - and get fearfull about hedging their bets on how far they will have to go. Electrically it may include a full re-wire, but also possibility of a new foundation, other structural, plumbing you name it....

Not trying to defend keeping it for a short time, but often money is a sensitive issue in these matters. Wait ten years - then your number gets pulled for a use it or loose it condo conversion and every unit needs to pony up a huge lump o' money to re-vamp a 100 year old building to current codes - FAST!