Dealing with Asbestos drywall

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JMWElectric

Member
Location
Martinez CA
Hey everyone,

Today I was approached by one of my customers about installing 220v outlets for cooling/heating units in 50+ apartments in Northern California. He informed me that the drywall has asbestos. Now I have dealt with projects where asbestos was being removed but never a project where we needed to disturb it and work around it. In any other situation this would be a fairly easy job ie: cut holes from sub panel to outlet location and fish wire there, once finished someone else comes in and patches it up.

My questions are:
Is this legally doable?
How would we protect ourselves?

Thanks for any feedback!
 
What is legal IDK, but to my knowledge proper procedures likely mean wetting things to prevent creating dust when cutting/disturbing asbestos containing materials. Asbestos itself isn't a problem, it is airborne fibers that are, you need to prevent creating airborne fibers when dealing with it.

Might be best to sub someone qualified to do such tasks, if you are going to do this job. Even to cut a hole only for purpose of fishing cable, you can still disturb asbestos while doing other tasks such as fishing the cable through that hole.
 
kwired said:
What is legal IDK, but to my knowledge proper procedures likely mean wetting things to prevent creating dust when cutting/disturbing asbestos containing materials. Asbestos itself isn't a problem, it is airborne fibers that are, you need to prevent creating airborne fibers when dealing with it.

Might be best to sub someone qualified to do such tasks, if you are going to do this job. Even to cut a hole only for purpose of fishing cable, you can still disturb asbestos while doing other tasks such as fishing the cable through that hole.
Click to expand...

It's undoubtedly a legal requirement, especially in California. You will also find that the costs involved in following the legally mandated procedures will dwarf the rest of the project. It would be well worth everybody's time to have an independent laboratory confirm the presence of asbestos, unless the owner has already done so.
 
Had a foreman approach me once. "Here's your choice: work night shift doing asbestos work or be laid off". I ran pipe in asbestos for several years.

Here's a link to EPA codes for asbestos removal. There are probably more. Just did a quick search.

https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/asbestos-national-emissions-standard-hazardous-air-pollutants-neshap

Small amounts of asbestos can be removed without doing anything special:

"If the total amount of asbestos to be removed or disturbed is less than 260 linear feet, 160 square feet, or 35 cubic feet off of facility components (if the material could not be measured previously), then the Asbestos NESHAP does not require regulated asbestos-containing material to be removed before demolition or renovation activities occur."

This is actually always in the back of mind when I look at a job. I know I can remove a small amount and be legal, but not above that amount. There are similar regulations covering outside asbestos like siding. Most older houses have asbestos plaster or drywall. It's actually legal to have asbestos in some current products.

As far as protective equipment is concerned, breathing the fibers is the biggest problem so a respirator with the proper filters is needed. If you are going to create a lot of dust, then a HEPA vacuum and a containment area (made out of plastic sheeting) are needed to keep dust out of the air. If you are just cutting small holes, this might be as simple as using a vac attachment. Put tape over the outside of the filters to keep fibers from getting inside mask and storage box.

The fibers will wash off your skin, but it's a good idea to wear a bunny suit to keep the fibers off your clothes otherwise they will dislodge when doing laundry and will expose your family. Tape the cuffs to keep fibers from going inside suit. Throw it away at the end of the shift. Take it off by rolling inside out to trap fibers. Tape it in a bundle to keep them trapped.
 
Last edited:
I am not sure if it is 4 or 8 hours but there is a short class you can take on dealing with small amounts of asbestos. You even get a certificate so you are "certified" if anyone cares.
 
jumper said:
Asbestos + CA + not certified with proper equipment = Big honking fines.

Lemme search, Fulthrotl has a good thread on the subject.
Click to expand...

full honk. there is another aspect of this, lead paint. one fiasco at a time.
the first hurdle.... lead paint.

you need a RRP cert to disturb any amount drywall where lead paint is
present. any amount. most states let you disturb six square ft. CA is zero.

i pulled a rrp cert a while back. let it lapse as i don't do residential any more,
and didn't want the audit nuisance for something i didn't need. audit nuisance?
you betcha. don't even ask.

if you are doing this without the cert, and get caught, the epa will put
you over a screen and shake you till all the money is out of your pockets.

i'm not overstating this. i read their fining guidelines. they audit your company,
and take as much as they can without closing your doors, leaving you naked and
bleeding on the ground.

they can fine up to iirc $32,000 per job, per day. so, they can take all your money.

for cutting in j boxes in drywall. any amount.

asbestos? you need a specific license to abate it. doing it without that license in
california, and getting caught, makes RRP fines look reasonable. criminal prosecution.

you should have quit reading by this point. if you are still interested, you have placed
yourself beyond human aid, and the advice of the internet. may god have mercy on you.

what requirements are needed for RRP by itself? the physical containment looks
a lot like asbestos abatement, minus the negative air pressure machine. when i was doing
residential, i had a $500 adder for RRP compliance, per job.

the cheapest, and some of the best RRP certified vacuums are made by festool. not their
earlier models, but all the new ones are RRP certified, except for the drywall sander extractor,
curiously enough.

https://www.epa.gov/lead/renovation-repair-and-painting-program-contractors
 
Last edited:
In CA you don't need a specific Asbestos Abatement license if the work involves less than 100 sq. ft. of material. But you are NOT alleviated from using the same proper handling and disposal practices, as well as the proper PPE etc. So EFFECTIVELY you shouldn't take it on.

Ironically, the same end user who hired you in order to avoid the bigger expense of hiring an abatement contractor can in fact come back after the fact and sue you for exposing them and or their progeny by exposing THEM to asbestos fibers, and probably win.

Either way, YOU lose, either to his lawyer or yours...

PS: Hadn't thought about the lead paint issue, but yeah, that too...
 
Jraef said:
In CA you don't need a specific Asbestos Abatement license if the work involves less than 100 sq. ft. of material. But you are NOT alleviated from using the same proper handling and disposal practices, as well as the proper PPE etc. So EFFECTIVELY you shouldn't take it on.

Ironically, the same end user who hired you in order to avoid the bigger expense of hiring an abatement contractor can in fact come back after the fact and sue you for exposing them and or their progeny by exposing THEM to asbestos fibers, and probably win.

Either way, YOU lose, either to his lawyer or yours...

PS: Hadn't thought about the lead paint issue, but yeah, that too...
Click to expand...

didn't know about the 100 sq. ft. threshold. funny you need a rrp for any lead paint,
but asbestos is ok....

there is also a hook that some smart homeowners did... have uncertified tradespeople do work,
and when it's all done, offer them the choice:

walk away unpaid, or, get paid, and the homeowner turns them in to the epa.
if you don't get paid for it, there is no crime on the RRP.

that's pretty sucky, but i heard it happening up in the bay area.

around here, there was an epa group driving around the gold coast, looking for painters.
they'd walk in, flash badges, all the painters said "como no?" and left, and then they fined
the homeowners.....
 
retirede said:
Where I live, you have to have credentials to even touch asbestos.
Click to expand...
Sure about that? I know of one school that I often do work for, still has original floor tile that contains asbestos. As long as they remain in good condition and floor remains "sealed" people walk on them every day the building is occupied.

I do know when they re-seal floors annually they use different process on the floors that still contain asbestos then they use on other floors.
 
kwired said:
Sure about that? I know of one school that I often do work for, still has original floor tile that contains asbestos. As long as they remain in good condition and floor remains "sealed" people walk on them every day the building is occupied.

I do know when they re-seal floors annually they use different process on the floors that still contain asbestos then they use on other floors.
Click to expand...

As long as the tiles are sealed and in good condition, no problem.

But if damaged or pop up loose, big problem. Cost the college I worked about 5 grand to remove them from an elevator. Maybe 10’ x 15’ max area.

Just stripping wax and resealing, they never did anything special and the college was very careful about stuff like this.
 
jumper said:
As long as the tiles are sealed and in good condition, no problem.

But if damaged or pop up loose, big problem. Cost the college I worked about 5 grand to remove them from an elevator. Maybe 10’ x 15’ max area.

Just stripping wax and resealing, they never did anything special and the college was very careful about stuff like this.
Click to expand...
This school I mentioned uses a mehanical means when stripping other floors, but just stripping solution and a mop on the asbestos containing floors.
 
kwired said:
Sure about that? I know of one school that I often do work for, still has original floor tile that contains asbestos. As long as they remain in good condition and floor remains "sealed" people walk on them every day the building is occupied.

I do know when they re-seal floors annually they use different process on the floors that still contain asbestos then they use on other floors.
Click to expand...

“Touch” was a bad choice of words on my part. “Disturb” would have been more accurate.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top