Death of construction company owner and how to move forward

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Yeah, _Dan, you make some good points. I don't have any contract signed with the company other than one that says I have to wait two years after working for a customer before I can work directly for them. So in the case of the one job that owes me $1200, I can't work for him directly. That's my only limitation. But if the company is defunct, the contract in null, right?
 
Yeah, _Dan, you make some good points. I don't have any contract signed with the company other than one that says I have to wait two years after working for a customer before I can work directly for them. So in the case of the one job that owes me $1200, I can't work for him directly. That's my only limitation. But if the company is defunct, the contract in null, right?

TALK TO YOUR LAWYER.
 
Talking to your lawyer is necessary.

One more tell I would be looking for is if they have a lot of new vehicles, big equipment, dump trucks, and toys less than five years old. Less than five years old the stuff is likely on payments and that's where they would be fighting default. Two vehicles and a home mortgage would run five grand monthly, a big nut. Could be double or triple that plus project financing.

The two grand could be hard to collect and I would be worried about getting in deeper.

Talk to your lawyer and don't hesitate to file liens for your money. The lien is necessary to move up your priority.
 
TALK TO YOUR LAWYER.

Seriously, you must do this. Stop guessing and spend a bit of money to keep you from losing more money.

Free Legal advice from a bunch of electricians/engineers on the internet is worth what you have paid for it. Call Your Lawyer

X4

I felt strongly tempted to say this earlier in the thread and with extra info now provided:

Quit flying blind

Only a civil law attorney that specializes in contractual issues/disputes in that state would know all the ends and outs.
 
"we'll probably have to do some stuff and not get paid for it"

we is you, not him
Correct, attorneys always make sure they get paid before anyone else when settling debt issues. This case being a relative may be slightly different then normal, but he is still an attorney and will put his financial needs ahead of all others to some extent.
 
I don't have any contract signed with the company other than one that says I have to wait two years after working for a customer before I can work directly for them. So in the case of the one job that owes me $1200, I can't work for him directly. That's my only limitation. But if the company is defunct, the contract in null, right?

I don't see why a GC doing residential contracting would want you to sign a "will not compete clause". I don't know why you would sign one.

I'm not in the same business as a GC so I don't compete with them. A GC doesn't own a customer except for work contracted and once the job is over I work for anyone willing to pay. I think I smell that lawyer FIL.

You do need a seperate contract for each job that you sub-contract from any GC. This spells out the work to be performed and when an how you are to be paid and actions to be taken if not paid.

Without a contract it can get hard to get paid at all.
 
We have numerous open jobs, and employees willing to work. Personally, the company owes me about $2000 for finished projects. If we can at least finish the other jobs that are contracted and receive payments from those customers, how do I ensure that I get paid? The wife had a small hand in running the business, so she's not a total stranger to the business. But of course, she's in no condition to think about this right now.

Even if the company just dissolves and everybody moves on, is there a way to get paid for the three invoices I have currently submitted? I've been doing jobs with these guys for 10 years, never had a problem getting paid, but now I fear that the wife who is now left alone with three children will take this opportunity to keep as much money as she can. I believe she has an official title within the company, possibly co-owner and/or vice president.

Any advice or info from anybody who knows what to expect would be greatly appreciated.

just my perception here, but if it was me, i would approach it like this:

contact the father in law, as he seems to be the de facto executor of this,
regarding the $2k for work fully completed. see about getting that money,
but it'll be iffy. it's not enough money, imho, to spend a lot of time and effort
trying to collect. how long would it take you to earn that much, versus how
long will it take to collect? i'm guessing there isn't any money at all, and what
has come in isn't available to pay you.

the rest of the jobs in progress, i'd contact the customer directly, and ask how
they wanted to proceed, those that you actually want to continue with of course,
and proceed directly with them if warranted. coordinate with the general contractor,
and most likely they will just want to close this stuff out, as they have contractural
obligations to the customer, and you don't. and they don't need any more grief
than they already have. don't be surprised if you find that there are progress payments
that part of should have gone to you, that you haven't seen any money on yet.

that is where it'll get fugly. customer has paid progress payments, part of which are
yours money, to general, and you haven't gotten paid, and the money got spent on
something else.

people tip over for all sorts of reasons, and for no apparent reason, but it sounds like this
guys money was all screwy, and has been that way for a while. don't assume that
any of the work in progress partial payments are in order. most likely they aren't.

guy i grew up with blew his brains out with a shotgun, in a spec house he'd just
finished, and owned free and clear. in theory, anyway. when the final accounting
was done, that house was absorbed in it's entirety by a ton of financial disarray.

it gets complicated as the guy who needs the work done, and you, have no
contractural relationship. make sure to correct that before any other work gets done.

good luck. it'll probably work out ok in the end, but it'll be fugly getting there.
 
the only good advice any of us can give him is to call his lawyer first thing in the morning. nothing else is even remotely good advice. at best it is uniformed and amatuer speculation about what might be or what could be.
 
Yeah, I'll get a lawyer. As I'm thinking about it I realize that the one person in the company that I had a great trustworthy relationship with is dead now. Nobody else was in charge of the things that made working with him so good.

Thanks, everybody. I will update the thread after speaking with a lawyer.
 
Yeah, I'll get a lawyer. As I'm thinking about it I realize that the one person in the company that I had a great trustworthy relationship with is dead now. Nobody else was in charge of the things that made working with him so good.

Thanks, everybody. I will update the thread after speaking with a lawyer.

Thanks. I'm sure a lot of guys will learn easily what you will learn the hard way.

My first bid job was a 5000 sf historic victorian owned by the State, renovation to become a State group home. Possibly through or for the group home operator, I forget. State plans and specs bid jobs, which I was targeting.

It was right after the economic collapse in construction in 1989 1990, had my license, and typical noob figured I would bid low to get work and stay busy, leading to more work.

First GC had defaulted and the project had sat for a year or two. Went in with the second GC, who was a craftsman wood framer in his day, but his day was the 1950's. When I bid with him he had a rep for going through everyone. But there was no other work and so, I was everyone.

Calling himself a framer now was fraud. I ran conduit with a level and it was varying 2.5" off the porch post in 4' rise. Looking down the second floor hallway, it was like a picture from Mad Magazine where every angle is never 90 deg. Wall would pull and take the doorways with it. His rep was you never wanted to sheetrock his jobs. Or maybe rock it but not tape it. Framing he did with his own crew.

Job started and we hit it for three months. GC sends a bill to the bond company who was on the hook for the job, $137,000 that month. Bond company sends a letter back, you owe us $4.37, we paid you too much already. There were 42 sub trades on the job who were all out money. GC had timed the real estate market wrong and sunk big into his previous project, building too much faster than he could lease or sell. He was selling triaxle dump trucks every month to pay his other note.

Don't know what the other guys did but me and the cabinet maker were the only two guys to lien the job. Liened it myself, figured I'd try learning the ropes. Architect at the job meeting said 'you can't lien it, the State owns it' which I responded 'I will sue you to foreclose'. At least it shut him and everyone else up, except for the GC who was laughing "you got $700,000 you can foreclose".

Lien paperwork went through slick, and every time there were meeting minutes, they always ended with 'oh and make sure __dan gets paid.'

We finished the job on time but payment took two years. Every month I would travel to the GC's office, tell him a joke, and get a check for 2 or 3 hundred. I would not consider taking the lien off, it was the only thing letting me sleep at night.

Finally he's down to the last $800 on the base bid. His kid, the one who never worked in field trade labor, is trying everything with me to get the lien off. Yep sure, just pay the $800. Finally he says take it off and you'll get a check. I took the lien off and there was not another check from that job.

People like that do not get what they deserve.
 
Yeah, I'll get a lawyer. As I'm thinking about it I realize that the one person in the company that I had a great trustworthy relationship with is dead now. Nobody else was in charge of the things that made working with him so good.

Thanks, everybody. I will update the thread after speaking with a lawyer.

Don't be surprised too much if the guy you trusted so much was some kind of scam artist. The best scam artists are always good at getting others to trust them. It is part of why they are such great scam artists. There are a lot of GCs who are running their business off of AR loans and down payments who are not actually profitable. It usually catches up with them, especially if they are not well capitalized, and very few have the capital to have much staying power.

Don't be real surprised if a bankruptcy filing is in the future to deal with his personal debts. A lot of these guys live high on the hog by over leveraging themselves. That almost always catches up with the too.
 
I've been doing jobs with these guys for 10 years, never had a problem getting paid.

Don't be surprised too much if the guy you trusted so much was some kind of scam artist.

Doesn't sound much like a scam artist to me, just some poor sod that got in to deep and couldn't figure a way so he started drinking heavily and taking a few pills to mellow out. Happens all the time.
 
Don't be surprised too much if the guy you trusted so much was some kind of scam artist. The best scam artists are always good at getting others to trust them. It is part of why they are such great scam artists. There are a lot of GCs who are running their business off of AR loans and down payments who are not actually profitable. It usually catches up with them, especially if they are not well capitalized, and very few have the capital to have much staying power.

Don't be real surprised if a bankruptcy filing is in the future to deal with his personal debts. A lot of these guys live high on the hog by over leveraging themselves. That almost always catches up with the too.

OK, let's not jump to speaking ill of the dead. OP indicates that this was an ongoing relationship, so throwing around words like "scam artist" is uncalled for, unless you personally have worked with this GC.
 
OK, let's not jump to speaking ill of the dead. OP indicates that this was an ongoing relationship, so throwing around words like "scam artist" is uncalled for, unless you personally have worked with this GC.

A lot of these guys are not crooks they just don't understand the difference between shuffling money and making money. One of my brothers did 3 million in business one year and at the end of the year didn't have anything (almost nothing) to show for it. Money comes in and money goes out but it's what you get to keep that counts.
 
OK, let's not jump to speaking ill of the dead. OP indicates that this was an ongoing relationship, so throwing around words like "scam artist" is uncalled for, unless you personally have worked with this GC.

I did not say he was a scam artist, only that the OP should not be surprised if it turns out he was.

A lot of business relationships are fine for years until one of them gets into a little financial trouble and gets desperate. It happens a lot. People who are desperate can do some really unexpected things.
 
I did not say he was a scam artist, only that the OP should not be surprised if it turns out he was.

A lot of business relationships are fine for years until one of them gets into a little financial trouble and gets desperate. It happens a lot. People who are desperate can do some really unexpected things.

That does not make a person a scam artist. A scam artist goes into a business arrangement with the intension of taking advange of someone. They normally take advantage of homeowners by doing a little work and getting a big draw and hitting the road.

It sounds like the GC was planning to at least try to finish the jobs that he had started and collect for them and pay his subs but he died. If a person (GC) runs out of money and just can't pay you that doesn't mean they are a scam artist just they are not good at business.

I had a homeowner stiff me for a few hundred bucks years ago but he was not a scam artist. He offered me a riding lawn mower (new) that I should have taken and sold for whatever. Tuned out he owed everyone money and couldn't pay. You can't get blood from a turnip.
 
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