Death update

[charlie tuna]

Re: Death update

this is a major problem all across the usa! here in south florida we killed five people in one year due to ungrounded light poles. one investigator had the balls to comment "the safety device (30 amp fuse) did not function to prevent the electricution" - "we are checking this out". just consider a typical incident:

2:00 a m - car with drunk driver hit a pole and knocks it down shearing the wires. power company or whoever (sub contractor) is called to the accident to make the pole safe. he locates the (maybe?) feed and the (maybe?) load. re-connects the circuit while isolating the pole that got knocked down. the other lights come on and he leaves. how did he varify that the bond wires are in fact "grounded" or are they broken or pulled loose in the down stream pole from the accident? it takes a $2000. meter to read the resistance on the bond wire.

two weeks later, a 16 year old boy is waiting for the bus, and touches the down stream pole and is locked onto it because the pole was not bonded and the phase conductor was pulled against the mounting bolt during the accident. the boy is dead!

and also, the practice of driving ground rods at poles just confuses the issue - the ground rod wire is usless and should discontinued!!!

 

[joe tedesco]

Re: Death update

Here is some additional supporting information, and pictures of the same problem in Massachusetts!

These hazards can be found in most major cities around the USA!

This one is South of San Diego, CA border!!

http://electrical-contractor.net/help/LightPoles/LightPoles.htm

Photos by: Joe Tedesco
www.joetedesco.com

Article Courtesy: ECN

[ August 01, 2003, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: joe tedesco ]

 

[jxofaltrds]

Re: Death update

Gerald Tudor

None of my comments are directed toward you or your staff. They are directed at the City.

Thank you for the report.

What concerns me and many to whom I have spoken is that no Ohio firm was used.

What about The Battelle Memorial Institute. I can not think of any more respected orginization to have performed the inspection.

I am sorry that the public perception is that the city did a cya.

From the report I gather that poor workmanship was involved. Who performed this work? Who is responsible?

Why is nothing said about the high EMF readings at the bridge.

If no one can find the cause may I suggest that Karl Riley be hired to find cause of these readings. They are from AEP's lines.

Mike P.

 

[wocolt]

Re: Death update

Why is it that it takes the loss of young lives to get a city to get off its dead A$$ to do anything. While living in Buffalo years back they put in a new expressway to the Air-port right through Project area, where alot of poor families lived it took 13 tragic accidents, mainly all children to get the city to put up a foot-bridge across Route 33 in Cheektowaga.
This and similar incidents seem to happen all the time and then and only then is anything done about it. There is always time to legislate innane laws that generate cash for some under funded part of city government, State and Federal but never enough for commmon sense. Seems to always be enough money for new vehicles but somehow maintenance programs take the financial hit to cut corners, so that some sorry commissioner can get his new car/or pen and pencil set.

WmColt

 

[bennie]

Re: Death update

Write to Consumer Protection Services, OSHA, NEMA, And all the manufacturers of metal lighting poles.

Suggest a PVC coating be on the first 6 feet of the poles. Mail all the clippings to your congressman, and the Bar Association, with copies of the request. The next fatality will cost the manufacturer a bundle of money.

It's sad that lives don't have any impact, but money does.

 

[chief_insp_cols]

Re: Death update

Mike,
I think Battelle was not used because of it's close working relationship with the city. I think they wanted to hire someone with no connection whatsoever with the city. Exponent was hired because of their forensic investigation reputation.
The report did more or less put the blame on poor workmanship by employees of the City. The city has accepted that and is in negotiations with the Wagner family for a settlement. I know that will never bring that little child back.
I don't think there is any connection between this and AEP's lines in the bridge deck. The power was shut off to those lines so they could measure the deck heating during a simulated "fault to ground". The deck of the bridge heated up significantly during this test. The reason this happened...?? There was no grounding conductor supplied with the feed to these poles. The "fault", if you will, had to make it's way back to "ground". The only path there was, was through the bridge itself, a very high impedance path.
The unused/abandonded MV ballast in the base of the pole had sat on the ungrounded conductor and had cut the insulation resulting in a fault. This pole and the ballast were not effectively grounded. I personally have not seen a utility installed light pole grounded in a proper manner.

wocolt,
Just so you know, here in Columbus we are in a budget crisis. We used to have a 5 year rotation schedule for vehicles, because of maintanence costs. According to that, my car should have been replaced 3 years ago. Some of my trucks should have been replaced 2 years ago. Some of them have 80-90,000 city miles on them. The service costs are eating us alive, but we don't have money for new ones

 

[chief_insp_cols]

Re: Death update

Bennie,
Proper grounding would have been the right thing to do years ago.

 

[bennie]

Re: Death update

You are correct, however, grounding is problematic, insulation is a fact forever.

 

[charlie]

Re: Death update

Originally posted by Bennie:
Suggest a PVC coating be on the first 6 feet of the poles.

Bennie, the trend has been for the electric utilities to go to direct imbedded fiberglass columns. I can't see that for high mast lighting but it will take care of some of the problems. Now if we could do something about missing handhole covers . . .

 

[tom baker]

Re: Death update

Insulated poles:
Hadco makes a high density polyethelyne decorative sleeve to go over a metal pole. the color is molded in. I don't care for FG poles, I like a foundation with metal poles
Missing handhhole covers: a couple of companies make universal replacement handhole covers, I see them advertised in the traffic signal magazine. They are impact resistant plastic.

 

[wocolt]

Re: Death update

Chief:
You got a point but doesnt any one ever ask where is all the money going. The city has got to have bean counters.
Here in my part of Ohio, they are strapped too, in fact a short time ago they laid off one of our two county electrical inspectors as a budget cutting means of all people to lay off one guy cannot cover 25 square miles by himself, but all the same he was let go.
Fortunately for us he got called back the, rhyme or reason doesnt make sense.
Regardless of the method the poles if of metal should have been properly grounded. But it seems whether its governmental or the private sector especailly big companies PM is all too often neglected and terrible accidents seem to be the result.

WmColt

 

[bennie]

Re: Death update

The reason I asked what direction the shock was applied to the victim. And to substantiate my opinion of insulation to supplement grounding is;

A little girl was electrocuted because the pole was well connected back to the source. There was a bare 277 volt conductor sticking out of an LB. The little girl, barefooted, stepped on the wire and hugged the pole. A non conductive coating, on the pole, would have prevented this tragedy.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Re: Death update

Mr. Tudor

Thank you for explaining what is going on.

Mike P.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Re: Death update

Bennie

Stop using common sense. If not your posts will start to have the tone of mine.

Mike P.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: Death update

the pvc insulation sounds like a good idea -- but-- most poles get banged up pretty good and exposed areas of pvc coated poles would require replacement.. "maintainance" is the word here. the original installation is fine as long as proper repairs are made. this must be accomplished by qualified personnel that know the consiqueces???(spelling). another way would come up with an easily installed device that gets mounted on a pole to flash (red strobe) when there is a potential on the pole and/or the pole is not grounded -- simple circuit. but even with the device - the pole must be "maintained". who can tell me how to determine how many people get kill every year due to improper light pole wiring?
i bet the figure is staggering!

 

[tom baker]

Re: Death update

All: The report is well worth downloading. It has detailed pictures. The lighting system is 480V single phase, the lights operate at 480 and its 480 to ground not 277. The pictures show what appear to be R or RH type wiring.
Also they turned on the lights and took a thermal picture of the concrete where it had heated.
One person had earlier noted the snow had melted around the pole base.

 

[tims924]

Re: Death update

The report gave a lot of info, very interesting as the ways they went about studying what happened. Suggest everyone take a look at it