dedicated non GFI circuits

Merry Christmas
Status
Not open for further replies.
benmin

benmin

Senior Member
Location
Maine
Occupation
Master Electrician
In basements, kitchens and garages we sometimes use a dedicated single non GFCI receptacle for items like sump pumps, freezers, refrigerators and heating appliances. What is the stopping point as to what you can use the dedicated non GFCI single receptacle? For example: One of my clients has a home theater and the electronics are in the basement (a 3' crawl space). would it be acceptable to use a single recp to power this UPS surge protection power strip?

Of course I know I can use a GFI breaker but I'm curious to know when and where the dedicated non GFI circuit can be used
 
benmin said:
In basements, kitchens and garages we sometimes use a dedicated single non GFCI receptacle for items like sump pumps, freezers, refrigerators and heating appliances.
Click to expand...

Under the 2005 NEC that is allowed in Garages 210.8(A)(2) Exception 1 or 2 and unfinished basements 210.8(A)(5) Exception 1 or 2.

In a kitchen that is a violation and keep in mind under the 2008 NEC it will likely be a violation in garages and basements as well. The exceptions are likely to be removed.

benmin said:
For example: One of my clients has a home theater and the electronics are in the basement (a 3' crawl space). would it be acceptable to use a single recp to power this UPS surge protection power strip?
Click to expand...

There are no exceptions for crawl spaces, they all must be GFCI protected.

Of course I know I can use a GFI breaker but I'm curious to know when and where the dedicated non GFI circuit can be used
Click to expand...

Just unfinished basements and garage's.
 
If in a kitchen where the receptacle is dedicated for an appliance and is not readily accessible, does it still need to be GFI'd? Like a refrigerator or microwave receptacle
 
benmin said:
If in a kitchen where the receptacle is dedicated for an appliance and is not readily accessible, does it still need to be GFI'd? Like a refrigerator or microwave receptacle
Click to expand...

Readily accessible has no bearing on this.

In a dwelling unit kitchen all 125 volt 15 and 20 amp receptacles that are installed to serve counter top surfaces must be GFCI protected. There are no exceptions. 210.8(A)(6)

However a receptacle behind a refrigerator or in a cabinet to serve a microwave would not have to be GFCI protected as they do not serve the counter tops.

BUT....

In commercial or institutional kitchens all all 125 volt 15 and 20 amp receptacles must be GFCI protected no matter what they supply or where they are located in that kitchen. There are no exceptions. 210.8(B)(2)
 
benmin said:
In basements, kitchens and garages we sometimes use a dedicated single non GFCI receptacle for items like sump pumps, freezers, refrigerators and heating appliances. What is the stopping point as to what you can use the dedicated non GFCI single receptacle? For example: One of my clients has a home theater and the electronics are in the basement (a 3' crawl space). would it be acceptable to use a single recp to power this UPS surge protection power strip?

Of course I know I can use a GFI breaker but I'm curious to know when and where the dedicated non GFI circuit can be used
Click to expand...


I know that there are some nice crawlspaces, but why on earth would you put electronic equipment in one of them?
 
bikeindy said:
I know that there are some nice crawlspaces, but why on earth would you put electronic equipment in one of them?
Click to expand...

The rich and famous don't like to see the items that control their goodies. You got to hide them where ever you can
 
In a kitchen that is a violation and keep in mind under the 2008 NEC it will likely be a violation in garages and basements as well. The exceptions are likely to be removed.
Click to expand...


If this does become part of the 2008 NEC I would opt for a 240 volt basement sump pump. IMO a sump pump on a GFCI is a bad idea. For some of us this could mean tens of thousands of dollars of water damage if the GFCI trips or fails.
 
infinity said:
For some of us this could mean tens of thousands of dollars of water damage if the GFCI trips or fails.
Click to expand...

Not that I have any problem with the 240 pump idea but if the pump is that important what is going to happen with a utility outage or pump failure?

If the pump is that critical a back some sort of back up or notification system should be in place.

One of my buddies has a water powered pump as a back up.
 
I have seen the water powered ones and agree that they're good for a backup. Fortunately for us the power very rarely goes out around here. My concern is with the GFCI set up is that while you're away on a long vacation the thing trips and your flooded basement awaits you on your return.
 
infinity said:
My concern is with the GFCI set up is that while you're away on a long vacation the thing trips and your flooded basement awaits you on your return.
Click to expand...

Not trying to be a pain I just am missing the difference in trouble or cost if the GFCI trips or the pump fails while we are out? :-?

FWIW my sump pump was on a GFCI for at least a few years and in the spring it must run or I will have some trouble.
 
infinity said:
If this does become part of the 2008 NEC I would opt for a 240 volt basement sump pump. IMO a sump pump on a GFCI is a bad idea. For some of us this could mean tens of thousands of dollars of water damage if the GFCI trips or fails.
Click to expand...
You also have condensate pumps that are located in the crawl spaces around here. If we had to put 220 volt circuits on all the equipment in a crawl we would be in troube. The trick is to get the manufacturers to get direct wire equipment installed. There are a multitude of things that are used outside, in crawl spaces, carports, etc. that we all would love to not be on GFCI receptacles. You can only imagine the number of times I have been called on because the condensate pump or the water softener system is tripping the GFI. I can't help that except to change the GFI out if it continues it is there problem not mine. Unfortunately it always makes the electricians look like the bad guys. I have started the process of getting the heating and air guys to get direct wire condensate pumps. It will alleviate a lot of headaches.
 
iwire said:
There is no legitimate reason why a condensate pump should trip a GFCI other than a defective pump.
Click to expand...
I agree but we get call backs on them when they go bad. Not too often with the condensates but I have been back on them a few times. I end up telling the heat guy to change it out. Biggest problems are pond pumps, sewer pumps and fountains.
 
Treat it as a service call. Determine it's the pump, tell them to call the pump guy, and get your 1-hour $.

If they happened to call the pump guy first, and it's the circuit, that's what the pump guy would do.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top