Defective Receptacle

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infinity said:
Yup, we had installed a hundred or so of these and then found the problem when we went back to install the plates. :slaphead:
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And I'm betting that when that was discovered there was certain "phrases" and "language" spoken that cannot be repeated here.:p
 
user 100 said:
And I'm betting that when that was discovered there was certain "phrases" and "language" spoken that cannot be repeated here.:p
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Yup including "who is going to pay to replace all of the defective devices"? :rant:
 
JFletcher said:
Why not just cut the last x number of feet to a cut length of 15' (smallest pre-packaged length that Im aware of) instead of a butt splice under the jacket? or discard/scrap/remelt-remake the end of the run? Ive never seen a butt splice in NM, never heard of it until now.
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I brought this up in one of Mike Holts seminars and did have only a couple people admit finding such a thing also. Mike said he never heard of such a thing either and I don't think he wanted to entertain a discussion on it. Maybe because of who may also be in the class but then during a break I had a gentleman approach me and said that it wasn't unheard of durring spooling of wire to continue a length of nm-b for testing purposes.:blink:

Still I say there is no reason for a splice to be in a roll of wire, think of the liability, and where it would be aimed. Approved or not.
Golddigger let us know if UL as anything on it in the manufacturing of nm-b.
 
GoldDigger said:
I would love to, but I cannot afford access to the UL documents. :)
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I recall doing some research a few years ago and coming across that. They splice to keep the line going and that splice can end up in your reel of wire.
 
mopowr steve said:
....Still I say there is no reason for a splice to be in a roll of wire, think of the liability, and where it would be aimed. Approved or not.
Golddigger let us know if UL as anything on it in the manufacturing of nm-b.
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There is a chunk of 6-3 romex hanging on the wall in my bosses office. Buried under the sheathing was one of the hots crossed with the egc. Came that way right from the factory. 'Course, nobody knew about it 'til the house was finished.
 
mgookin said:
I recall doing some research a few years ago and coming across that. They splice to keep the line going and that splice can end up in your reel of wire.
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I wonder whether they are supposed to discard that section once it comes off the line, or whether it is meant to be delivered that way?
 
GoldDigger said:
I wonder whether they are supposed to discard that section once it comes off the line, or whether it is meant to be delivered that way?
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What I read said it was intended to go out for distribution. I'll see if I can find it again... After I get some coffee in me...
 
I see the photo as well. I hope P&S knows about this and improves their QC. I use their products almost exclusively and have yet to encounter a problem. Maybe I should go out and buy a lottery ticket.:cool:
 
GoldDigger said:
I wonder whether they are supposed to discard that section once it comes off the line, or whether it is meant to be delivered that way?
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Here's the best I can come up with:
Watch the video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6m1Uii5v2I
and at 1:35 you can see the splicing of two bobbins.

What's required is conductivity and meeting the requirements for tensile strength. There's no reason to believe they don't maintain those requirements.

If someone encounters one that failed, that's unfortunate. As to why, there could be a problem with the apparatus they use to make the splice, the worker could have erred or something may have happened after the process was complete.
I'm sure that company would like to have it back to see what went wrong with their process, or after their process.
 
Saturn_Europa said:
I always try to de energize a circuit before working on it also. But I end up working 120 control voltage hot all the time. I am a firm believer in the old saying "be smart about the stupid things you do." I always use insulated tools, and wear rubber gloves, work boots and safety glasses.
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You do understand that even suited up you likely are in violation of OSHA rules right?
 
JFletcher said:
Why not just cut the last x number of feet to a cut length of 15' (smallest pre-packaged length that Im aware of) instead of a butt splice under the jacket? or discard/scrap/remelt-remake the end of the run? Ive never seen a butt splice in NM, never heard of it until now.
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No doubt many of us have installed cables with factory splices.


You know the answer to your question is money, contractors shop for wire by price alone so the manufacturers cut every corner they can to keep the price down.
 
iwire said:
No doubt many of us have installed cables with factory splices.


You know the answer to your question is money, contractors shop for wire by price alone so the manufacturers cut every corner they can to keep the price down.
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I Normally I wouldn't have a problem with that as long as you know it up front. If you want to buy pieces of cable at a discounted price and use it on short runs that's OK. But if you are being sold whole reels or coils of cable I would expect that it is in one piece and not spliced at the manufacturer's discretion.:rant:
 
goldstar said:
I Normally I wouldn't have a problem with that as long as you know it up front. If you want to buy pieces of cable at a discounted price and use it on short runs that's OK. But if you are being sold whole reels or coils of cable I would expect that it is in one piece and not spliced at the manufacturer's discretion.:rant:
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Well you know it now, what is going to change? :D
 
iwire said:
No doubt many of us have installed cables with factory splices.


You know the answer to your question is money, contractors shop for wire by price alone so the manufacturers cut every corner they can to keep the price down.
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It's not about cutting corners. Things are spliced all the time. POCO splices their conductors all the time. It's part of the process. One fails here and there but overall they are very successful. Do you think that transmission easement set of conductors came from the factory that long?
 
mgookin said:
It's not about cutting corners.
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I am not saying it is bad but it is entirely about cutting corners to save money. There is no other reason for splicing in a cable like NM or MC


Things are spliced all the time. POCO splices their conductors all the time. It's part of the process. One fails here and there but overall they are very successful. Do you think that transmission easement set of conductors came from the factory that long?
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Not even remotely the same.
 
mgookin said:
It's not about cutting corners. Things are spliced all the time. POCO splices their conductors all the time. It's part of the process. One fails here and there but overall they are very successful. Do you think that transmission easement set of conductors came from the factory that long?
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At least there the POCO knows they made the splice in the line. If it goes bad they fix it. If a splice in an mc or nm cable goes bad in a residence or commercial establishment and the place burns down you'll be hard pressed to blame it on the manufacturer.

With the advent of places like HD and Lowe's there's no reason a manufacturer can't package up and sell the short pieces to them instead of dumping it on unsuspecting souls like us.
 
iwire said:
I am not saying it is bad but it is entirely about cutting corners to save money. There is no other reason for splicing in a cable like NM or MC

Not even remotely the same.
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What's the same is each has to have conductivity and tensile strength. If their processes could not meet those requirements they would not be doing it.

goldstar said:
At least there the POCO knows they made the splice in the line. If it goes bad they fix it. If a splice in an mc or nm cable goes bad in a residence or commercial establishment and the place burns down you'll be hard pressed to blame it on the manufacturer.

With the advent of places like HD and Lowe's there's no reason a manufacturer can't package up and sell the short pieces to them instead of dumping it on unsuspecting souls like us.
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If that POCO splice fails they burn down the town.


They look at the probability and cost of failure just like everything else in engineering.
Jet turbines and nuclear processes are some of the highest standards there are because the cost of failure is so high. Making water balloons is probably one of the lower standards.

If the EC who found that failed splice in the wall had called the manufacturer they likely would have covered the cost of diagnosis and repair because it's cheaper to do that than to throw out, recycle or produce, manage & distribute short rolls every time one conductor in a cable comes to the end of a bobbin.

BTW: Saw a failed POCO crimp on a distribution line downtown earlier this year. It caught a 2 story building on fire in 2 places. POCO did not hesitate to cover the cost. They said just send them the bill.
 
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