Depth of Buried Triplex

[Doc13067]

We are converting an aerial service drop to an underground. The pole is in the front yard so it’s not a huge deal. But my poco has been very difficult to talk to in recent months. I plan to stub up at the pole and at the meter but through the trench I’m using URD. I’m putting a hand hole in front of the meter for easy disconnect from the transformer for future services in decades to come (I wish it was always done this way). Does this fall under 300.5 at 24” or is there some additional directive since this is before the service wires? The end result will be the transformer wires running down the pole and into the ground and over to the hand hole where they’ll meet my service wires and continue to the meter socket.

And if the poco continues not responding after we’ve stubbed up my next question will be about the metal guards that go on the side of the pole to protect the wires on their journey to the transformer because I’m gonna climb the damn thing myself and make the connection lol.

 

[LarryFine]

And if the poco continues not responding after we’ve stubbed up my next question will be about the metal guards that go on the side of the pole to protect the wires on their journey to the transformer because I’m gonna climb the damn thing myself and make the connection lol.

I want to watch!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Does this fall under 300.5 at 24” or is there some additional directive since this is before the service wires?

See 300.5(D)(3). By the way, those are service conductors ...since you are installing them they would be "service conductors, underground" and if the utility installs them they are service lateral conductors. The NEC does not apply to service lateral conductors, but does apply to "service conductors, underground".

 

[Birken Vogt]

And if the poco continues not responding after we’ve stubbed up my next question will be about the metal guards that go on the side of the pole to protect the wires on their journey to the transformer because I’m gonna climb the damn thing myself and make the connection lol.

I'd do it in a heartbeat if I didn't think the man would come crashing down on me or the customer whenever they eventually discovered it.

Then again, if they are that slow, how will they ever discover it? "It was always like that."

This incompetence has me at the end of my rope.

 

[electrofelon]

I'd do it in a heartbeat if I didn't think the man would come crashing down on me or the customer whenever they eventually discovered it.

Then again, if they are that slow, how will they ever discover it? "It was always like that."

This incompetence has me at the end of my rope.

Yeah I pretty much ignore POCO procedure and do whatever is most convenient. I mean I'm happy to let them do the work rather than me doing it, but often it's not worth the delay and coordinating. Nothing ever happens, just the occasional scolding and I say something like oh I had no idea, sorry, I'm used to this other POCO, I definitely won't do that again. . I've got a hot stick which is handy too. 220, 240, 7200 whatever it takes!

 

[Doc13067]

I want to watch!

I’ll video the adventure and send it your way! Maybe I’ll dress up as spider man or something.

 

[Doc13067]

I'd do it in a heartbeat if I didn't think the man would come crashing down on me or the customer whenever they eventually discovered it.

Then again, if they are that slow, how will they ever discover it? "It was always like that."

This incompetence has me at the end of my rope.

So it’s not just in my area? It’s really out of control. I heard mine got bought out or had some big change. I have had nothing but trouble with trying to go through the proper channels with them. They once told me o couldn’t have a gutter before 3 meter (triple gangs were out of the supply chain entirely so I had to make my own but I wanted to run one big set of feeds and split them up to go three different ways). They said no access point before the meter. But we do this all the time and there are installs like that everywhere.

 

[Doc13067]

Yeah I pretty much ignore POCO procedure and do whatever is most convenient. I mean I'm happy to let them do the work rather than me doing it, but often it's not worth the delay and coordinating. Nothing ever happens, just the occasional scolding and I say something like oh I had no idea, sorry, I'm used to this other POCO, I definitely won't do that again. . I've got a hot stick which is handy too. 220, 240, 7200 whatever it takes!

I love it! I’ve got some insulated gear but nothing too crazy like that. I’d really like one of their blankets that they use to cover the lines they aren’t working on. Wouldn’t mind one of their trucks either for that matter.

 

[Little Bill]

We don't run UG SE conductors here. I deal with multiple POCOs and they all run their own. We have to provide the trench and a sweep on one end. The trenches have to be 36" deep. One POCO requires us to also run the conduit. We run it from meter to the pole, but stop there. But we have to leave enough conduit for them to go up the pole with it.

 

[Doc13067]

We don't run UG SE conductors here. I deal with multiple POCOs and they all run their own. We have to provide the trench and a sweep on one end. The trenches have to be 36" deep. One POCO requires us to also run the conduit. We run it from meter to the pole, but stop there. But we have to leave enough conduit for them to go up the pole with it.

Interesting. Around me it’s all direct burial even the lateral and just a metal guard over the wires going up the pole. No pipe except for at the meter socket. But I’m wondering now if I should go the extra foot and make my trench 36 inches

See 300.5(D)(3). By the way, those are service conductors ...since you are installing them they would be "service conductors, underground" and if the utility installs them they are service lateral conductors. The NEC does not apply to service lateral conductors, but does apply to "service conductors, underground".

Awesome! Thank you for the clarification.

 

[electrofelon]

So it’s not just in my area? It’s really out of control. I heard mine got bought out or had some big change. I have had nothing but trouble with trying to go through the proper channels with them. They once told me o couldn’t have a gutter before 3 meter (triple gangs were out of the supply chain entirely so I had to make my own but I wanted to run one big set of feeds and split them up to go three different ways). They said no access point before the meter. But we do this all the time and there are installs like that everywhere.

Obvs going to be differences from POCO to POCO..... national grid here in central NY is probably the most chill POCO in the country. I just do whatever I want and never get scolded. NYSEG is a bit more anal but still I mostly do what I want. I also work in Seattle, and Seattle City Light is the worst POCO I deal with. Their construction reps are without fail total morons, and their lineman are all total A-holes and always treat me like "low volt scum"....just awful. Makes me actually want to go into the DMV after dealing with SCL linemen....

 

[wwhitney]

By the way, those are service conductors ...since you are installing them they would be "service conductors, underground" and if the utility installs them they are service lateral conductors. The NEC does not apply to service lateral conductors, but does apply to "service conductors, underground".

The distinction between the two is based on the location of the service point, not necessarily who installs them. Are there not utilities which would require the customer to install them, but then take ownership and responsibility for future maintenance, with the service point at the load end?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The distinction between the two is based on the location of the service point, not necessarily who installs them. Are there not utilities which would require the customer to install them, but then take ownership and responsibility for future maintenance, with the service point at the load end?

Cheers, Wayne

Around here, the service point determines who installs the conductors, but that could be different for other utilities.

 

[electrofelon]

The distinction between the two is based on the location of the service point, not necessarily who installs them. Are there not utilities which would require the customer to install them, but then take ownership and responsibility for future maintenance, with the service point at the load end?

Cheers, Wayne

I suppose it is possible, but I have never heard of such an arrangement

 

[Doc13067]

Obvs going to be differences from POCO to POCO..... national grid here in central NY is probably the most chill POCO in the country. I just do whatever I want and never get scolded. NYSEG is a bit more anal but still I mostly do what I want. I also work in Seattle, and Seattle City Light is the worst POCO I deal with. Their construction reps are without fail total morons, and their lineman are in total A-holes and always treat me like "low volt scum"....just awful. Makes me actually want to go into the DMV after dealing with SCL linemen....

Haha! Wow that’s saying something! We have some ahole linemen too. Last month an ilsco insul-eater that I installed a year ago failed (the teeth broke when I torqued it to 192 in lbs I guess and they called the utility out and the guy was blasting me to the client saying I didn’t even strip the wires. I guess he didn’t know the point of insulation piercing taps but he was a real scumbag about it. I would’ve thought that they were cool with electricians due to the similarity in vocation but I guess not.

 

[kwired]

So it’s not just in my area? It’s really out of control. I heard mine got bought out or had some big change. I have had nothing but trouble with trying to go through the proper channels with them. They once told me o couldn’t have a gutter before 3 meter (triple gangs were out of the supply chain entirely so I had to make my own but I wanted to run one big set of feeds and split them up to go three different ways). They said no access point before the meter. But we do this all the time and there are installs like that everywhere.

Wouldn't your proposed hand hole near the pole in OP be an access point before the meter as well?

Most POCO's want no access points ahead of metering equipment whether they are one of those companies that are easy to work with or not. When they do allow any particular access point they usually want it to be something they can place a lock or seal on to at least indicate any potential tampering to gain access. So the gutter and multiple meters may or may not be acceptable to some, but if allowed they likely want the gutter to have an ability to lock/seal it.

Depth of conductors, like thread title says? That usually is up to POCO as well, particularly if on supply side of metering equipment. Some around here want it deeper than NEC minimum says, others kind of don't care and presume if the electrical inspector approves then it is probably fine. EI's don't necessarily pay attention to this if on supply side or meter as they figure is a POCO issue.

POCO can refuse to energize if you don't comply with what they require regardless of NEC and what the EI says.

 

[letgomywago]

Haha! Wow that’s saying something! We have some ahole linemen too. Last month an ilsco insul-eater that I installed a year ago failed (the teeth broke when I torqued it to 192 in lbs I guess and they called the utility out and the guy was blasting me to the client saying I didn’t even strip the wires. I guess he didn’t know the point of insulation piercing taps but he was a real scumbag about it. I would’ve thought that they were cool with electricians due to the similarity in vocation but I guess not.

Don't worry you'll get him back for using an impact in a meter pan and snapping it when he over tourqed it. Now that you need service rated splices idk of any vampire connectors that'll meet the 2020 code ul listing for them now.

 

[kwired]

Now that you need service rated splices idk of any vampire connectors that'll meet the 2020 code ul listing for them now.

If on supply side of meter, many cases they won't be subjected to NEC.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If on supply side of meter, many cases they won't be subjected to NEC.

Only if the meter is the service point. Everything on the load side of the service point is subject to the requirements of the NEC.

 

[letgomywago]

Only if the meter is the service point. Everything on the load side of the service point is subject to the requirements of the NEC.

That's my understanding. I have jobs where customer owns wire and conduit up to handhole or up to weather head often and the NEC says a lot about those install methods.