Derating Calculation

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Alwayslearningelec

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Occupation
Estimator
I want to go through the derating steps on how I'm figuring so i can get some feedback.
No ambient temperature correction needed on adjustment for 3 or more CCC's.
Parameters. 1" RGS with (10) #10 thhn CCC's.
Since I'm derating I can use the 90 degree column which for #10 is 40A
10 CCC's need to be derated 50%
So after derating (10) #10 CCC's are good for 20A?
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I want to go through the derating steps on how I'm figuring so i can get some feedback.
No ambient temperature correction needed on adjustment for 3 or more CCC's.
Parameters. 1" RGS with (10) #10 thhn CCC's.
Since I'm derating I can use the 90 degree column which for #10 is 40A
10 CCC's need to be derated 50%
So after derating (10) #10 CCC's are good for 20A?
You are correct.
 

mandrassi

Member
Location
loveland colorado
Occupation
master electrician
my lead electrician used a 2" raceway from a gutter, with 26 #12. would this be the formula?
the inspector is stating we have to change the #12 to #10 , because the circuit is must be rated for 20 amps.
90 degree colum #12 is 30 amps, derating to 45 percent wire is good for 15 amps?
question, this this have anything to do with the actual load on the conductors? inspector is stating because we have 1 receptacle per circuit, the terminals are rated for 60C?he is stating the #12 is the 60 degree colum. can i have your email to correspond? thanks mike andrassi
 
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infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
my lead electrician used a 2" raceway from a gutter, with 26 #12. would this be the formula?
the inspector is stating we have to change the #12 to #10 , because the circuit is must be rated for 20 amps.
90 degree colum #12 is 30 amps, derating to 45 percent wire is good for 15 amps?
question, this this have anything to do with the actual load on the conductors? inspector is stating because we have 1 receptacle per circuit, the terminals are rated for 60C?he is stating the #12 is the 60 degree colum. can i have your email to correspond? thanks mike andrassi
How long is the raceway?
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
my lead electrician used a 2" raceway from a gutter, with 26 #12. would this be the formula?
the inspector is stating we have to change the #12 to #10 , because the circuit is must be rated for 20 amps.
90 degree colum #12 is 30 amps, derating to 45 percent wire is good for 15 amps?
question, this this have anything to do with the actual load on the conductors? inspector is stating because we have 1 receptacle per circuit, the terminals are rated for 60C?he is stating the #12 is the 60 degree colum. can i have your email to correspond? thanks mike andrassi
If the circuit feeds a single receptacle, not a duplex, and the load is 13.5 amps or less you are compliant. If the load feeds a duplex or multiple single receptacles the conductor does not have enough ampacity as the rule in 240.4(B)(1) does not permit you to protect the 13.5 amp wire with a 15 amp OCPD where there is more than one receptacle.

As far as the ampacity adjustment, the inspector is not correct. The ampacity adjustment is applied based on the temperature rating of the conductor and not of the terminations.
 

mandrassi

Member
Location
loveland colorado
Occupation
master electrician
The 2020 NEC 310. 15 Ampacity Tables requires conductor adjustment per (A) through (F) of the article.

(A) Using the 90-degree column #12, the AWG value is 30 amps. Adjusting per 110.14, the #12 may never be used for a temperature greater than the 60-degree column which is 20 amps (the breakers are rated at 75 degrees, but the devices are rated at 60 degrees and 110.14 limits the max to 60 Degrees).

(C)(1) Adjustment Factors. 21-30 conductors derate conductor to 45% of 30amps = 13.5 amps



240.4
(D) Small Conductors.

Unless specifically permitted in 240.4(E) or (G), the overcurrent protection shall not exceed that required by (D)(1) through (D)(7)
after any correction factors for ambient temperature and number of conductors have been applied.

(B) Overcurrent Devices Rated 800 Amperes or Less.

The next higher standard overcurrent device rating (above the ampacity of the conductors being protected) shall be permitted to be used, provided all of the following conditions are met:

(1) The conductors being protected are not part of a branch circuit supplying more than one receptacle for cord-and-plug-connected portable loads.

(2) The ampacity of the conductors does not correspond with the standard ampere rating of a fuse or a circuit breaker without overload trip adjustments above its rating (but that shall be permitted to have other trip or rating adjustments).

(3) The next higher standard rating selected does not exceed 800 amperes.



110.3 (A) & (B) You have equipment installed in each of the exam rooms that require a minimum of 20 amp branch circuits.

220.14(I)
(I) Receptacle Outlets.

Except as covered in 220.14(J) and (K), receptacle outlets shall be calculated at not less than 180 volt-amperes for each single or for each multiple receptacle on one yoke. A single piece of equipment consisting of a multiple receptacle comprised of four or more receptacles shall be calculated at not less than 90 volt-amperes per receptacle. This provision shall not be applicable to the receptacle outlets specified in 210.11(C)(1) and (C)(2).

220.12 Lighting Load for Non-Dwelling Occupancies.

(A) General.

A unit load of not less than that specified in Table 220.12 for non-dwelling occupancies and the floor area determined in 220.11 shall be used to calculate the minimum lighting load. Motors rated less than 1⁄8 HP and connected to a lighting circuit shall be considered general lighting load.

210.20 Overcurrent Protection.

Branch-circuit conductors and equipment shall be protected by overcurrent protective devices that have a rating or setting that complies with 210.20(A) through (D).

(A) Continuous and Noncontinuous Loads.

Where a branch circuit supplies continuous loads or any combination of continuous and noncontinuous loads, the rating of the overcurrent device shall not be less than the noncontinuous load plus 125 percent of the continuous load.

1) General.



Branch-circuit conductors shall have an ampacity not less than the larger of 210.19(A)(1)(a) or (A)(1)(b) and comply with 110.14(C) for equipment terminations.

(a)

Where a branch circuit supplies continuous loads or any combination of continuous and noncontinuous loads, the minimum branch-circuit conductor size shall have an ampacity not less than the noncontinuous load plus 125 percent of the continuous load in accordance with 310.14.



(b)

The minimum branch-circuit conductor size shall have an ampacity not less than the maximum load to be served after the application of any adjustment or correction factors in accordance with 310.15.



Now all that being said Panel A has 40, 20 amp Branch circuit breakers 1, 2pole 20A and panel B has 41, 20 amp branch circuit breaker and 12, 15 amp branch circuit breaker.

So when we review the calculations above the minimum conductor requirement of continuous loads require a conductor rated for the 20 amps needed not 13.5 amps.



Mr. Andrassi. You will be required to increase the wire size, as noted in Shane's corrections notice. The branch circuits will be required to be run in additional raceways so as not to exceed nine current-carrying conductors, or you may change the current-carrying conductors to # 10 copper. Please make the corrections as quickly as possible and request an inspection. I have approved the revisions to the plans and will need these corrections and any other items noted in order to approve a temp Certificate of Occupancy
 

mandrassi

Member
Location
loveland colorado
Occupation
master electrician
don, here is the return email from the inspector. i guess he won that one,because the circuit feeds multiple outlets , maybe 2 at the most.
thanks for help
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Mr. Andrassi. You will be required to increase the wire size, as noted in Shane's corrections notice. The branch circuits will be required to be run in additional raceways so as not to exceed nine current-carrying conductors, or you may change the current-carrying conductors to # 10 copper. Please make the corrections as quickly as possible and request an inspection. I have approved the revisions to the plans and will need these corrections and any other items noted in order to approve a temp Certificate of Occupancy
The inspector's calculation is correct.
 
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