Derating on a roof

[kingpb]

In your example, if there were meters for each of the 200 amp feeders, the installation would not be permitted around here by either the utility or the AHJ.

Good point about the meters, the OP has not answered this question. I am in agreement with you in that if there is one main utility meter to the building, then each panel is simply a sub-panel. The owner can still sub-meter each of these panels to make the tenants pay their portion of the bill, but they would not be "services". But, if there are separate utility meters on each panel, then I say it wouldn't fly. Without seeing the plans, it could be that they appeared to be correct to the AHJ during checking, but upon physical inspection, the install did not comply with what the AHJ thought the plans intended.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

Good point about the meters, the OP has not answered this question. I am in agreement with you in that if there is one main utility meter to the building, then each panel is simply a sub-panel. The owner can still sub-meter each of these panels to make the tenants pay their portion of the bill, but they would not be "services". But, if there are separate utility meters on each panel, then I say it wouldn't fly. Without seeing the plans, it could be that they appeared to be correct to the AHJ during checking, but upon physical inspection, the install did not comply with what the AHJ thought the plans intended.

Correct. The main service to the building was master metered and the meters downstream were sub-metered. This is how 95% of retail applications are handled. Sometimes you get a lease with utilities included by the landlord, but that's pretty rare.

 

[iwire]

Correct. The main service to the building was master metered and the meters downstream were sub-metered. This is how 95% of retail applications are handled.

How it's done there is not how it's done here.

Here there will be a single main and multiple utility owned meters located together.

Each retail unit has their own direct account with the power companies.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

How it's done there is not how it's done here.

Here there will be a single main and multiple utility owned meters located together.

Each retail unit has their own direct account with the power companies.

For sure. I get that things are different in different areas, but when I did retail work I did jobs in just about every state/ Puerto Rico, with exceptions for a few fly over states and Alaska and it was like this pretty consistently. So if the main service is metered you would agree with my assessment?

 

[kingpb]

For sure. I get that things are different in different areas, but when I did retail work I did jobs in just about every state/ Puerto Rico, with exceptions for a few fly over states and Alaska and it was like this pretty consistently. So if the main service is metered you would agree with my assessment?

If each 200A feeder to each 200A tenant panelboard has it's own utility meter, than I would say you have an issue.

 

[kwired]

I guess the Building Official could make that determination but I'm not sure of the legality. I would think if a future (as of yet not legally adopted) code were permitted to be used you would have to use only that edition. I don't think it would be a good idea to allow "cherry picking" from different editions.

Pete

For sure. I get that things are different in different areas, but when I did retail work I did jobs in just about every state/ Puerto Rico, with exceptions for a few fly over states and Alaska and it was like this pretty consistently. So if the main service is metered you would agree with my assessment?

Meters are just a wide point in the conductors. (don't know who to quote that from but first seen this description on this site). What matters is where the service disconnecting means is. NEC don't care who pays the energy bill or if there even is a meter but does allow meters to be inserted into the line. NEC permits a meter to be installed most anywhere, POCO's OTOH, typically want their cash registers inserted in either the service conductors or in meter centers that they approve of. Something that limits access to unmetered conductors is usually high on their selection criteria.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

Meters are just a wide point in the conductors. (don't know who to quote that from but first seen this description on this site). What matters is where the service disconnecting means is. NEC don't care who pays the energy bill or if there even is a meter but does allow meters to be inserted into the line. NEC permits a meter to be installed most anywhere, POCO's OTOH, typically want their cash registers inserted in either the service conductors or in meter centers that they approve of. Something that limits access to unmetered conductors is usually high on their selection criteria.

I agree with you. It seems pretty clear to me what a "service" is per the NEC.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

... This is how 95% of retail applications are handled. Sometimes you get a lease with utilities included by the landlord, but that's pretty rare.

I have never seen a master meter with sub-meters around here.