Detached Shed

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jt700

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I have a residential customer who wants to have two 20 amp circuits run from his 200 Amp panel out to a shed that's located about 90' from his house. I suggested the installation of a subpanel, but my customer stated that he only wants two circuits.

Anyway, I believe the only way I could accomplish this is by adhering to Article 225.30. I would have to run a multiwire branch circuit (Considered a single circuit) that will originate from a 20amp double pole breaker in the 200 amp panel. Where the circuits enter the shed, I was planning to use a 20amp double pole toggle switch as a disconnecting means. Am I on the right track?

I really don't like the idea of sharing a neutral. Thoughts on the neutral as well?
 
Why is everyone so afraid of sharing a neutral. Every service shares a neutral, most every electric dryer and range does, there are literally millions of circuits in office buildings and other commercial installs sharing neutrals.

I think the sub panel is a better idea. Guess what? It's sharining a neutral.
 
jt700 said:
Am I on the right track?
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Absolutely.

I really don't like the idea of sharing a neutral. Thoughts on the neutral as well?
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It's actually more electrically efficient, as well as less expensive, and it's what I would do.


You might sell the customer on using #10 for voltage-drop reasons now and for the sub-panel idea in the future.

The labor is the same, you can fit four #10s in 1/2" conduit; just charge for the difference in wire cost.
 
the cost of the labor, the trenching, the conduit work, etc will be the majority of the cost of the job. You can run a single multiwire branch circuit 20 amps, or you can jump up a few wire sizes, spend the same on a double pole 40 or 60amp breaker, and put a small sub panel in there.

If all he wants is 20 amps, the switch you mentioned is fine as a disconnecting means.

As far as sharing my noodles, no I don't like to share my Ramen. When were talking about neutrals and Romex though, share away.

To upsell the idea of more than two circuits, ponder this: he gets a spare window unit air conditioner through some trade or what not, and decides to put it in his shed the 1st 95 degree day we have. All is good again, until his buddy wants to sell him a nice air compressor. It's too good a deal to pass up, so he buys air compressor. next thing you know the wife is asking to run all sorts of Christmas lights, and guess where the power for those lights are coming from?
 
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If the customer is fine with 2 circuits I would just do that. If running PVC underground I would probably install 3/4" or 1" just in case they decide they want more power in the future. If you install a feeder and panel you will also have the cost of installing a grounding electrode system which in not required for the single multi-wire circuit.
 
Sounds like he wants cheap so I would run 12/3 UF cable and call it a day. If feeling generous then run 10/3. :)
 
sub panel? 12/3? 10/3?

a few options to solve what problem? what are the intended uses of the MWBC?

ask him if he thinks he'll ever put in a AC or compressor or fridge or freezer, if so then upsell the 10/3. if not, then ask why he need two 20amps.

does it need permit from the AHJ? if so doesnt the AHJ require a statement about the intended use of the outlets?
 
FionaZuppa said:
sub panel? 12/3? 10/3?

a few options to solve what problem? what are the intended uses of the MWBC?

ask him if he thinks he'll ever put in a AC or compressor or fridge or freezer, if so then upsell the 10/3. if not, then ask why he need two 20amps.

does it need permit from the AHJ? if so doesnt the AHJ require a statement about the intended use of the outlets?
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Intended use of the outlets?
 
GerryB said:
Intended use of the outlets?
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yes. what does the permit say? what does owner say?

just because owner says "i want two 20A" that doesnt really mean much if he then says "because i want to plug in in my two 8watt UV lamps to grow some weed", etc.


or just upsell the 10/3 with a sales pitch that 10/3 has less voltage drop and is less wasteful than 12/3, and possibly allowing to upgrade ocpd later if needed.

if its a metal shed i would add gec ground rod and tie egc and shed to it ;)
 
FionaZuppa said:
yes. what does the permit say? what does owner say?

just because owner says "i want two 20A" that doesnt really mean much if he then says "because i want to plug in in my two 8watt UV lamps to grow some weed", etc.


or just upsell the 10/3 with a sales pitch that 10/3 has less voltage drop and is less wasteful than 12/3, and possibly allowing to upgrade ocpd later if needed.

if its a metal shed i would add gec ground rod and tie egc and shed to it ;)
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That's an interesting thought to ground a metal shed. They probably don't make many out of metal today. I think that question came up about aluminum siding years ago, I never saw it done though.
 
GerryB said:
That's an interesting thought to ground a metal shed. They probably don't make many out of metal today. I think that question came up about aluminum siding years ago, I never saw it done though.
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Wood / Metal / Vinyl

all 3 are very common off-the-shelf types. most DIY sheds that i have seen and/or ran power to were wood.
but even look at the floor of the shed, the condition of the shed, and if it rains a lot. those factors might suggest the use of gfci ocpd, etc.
 
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