Did I estimate too much?

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Vinniem

Senior Member
Location
Central Jersey
I'd like your opinions on the job I just lost to another licensed contractor.

The job consisted of an add on addition.
The following is all new wire.

2 bedrooms consisting of 14 outlets, 4 circuits-2 lighting, 2 recp., install 2 ceiling fans (provided by homeowner), both controlled by 1 single pole switch

one 20 amp laundry circuit, one 15 amp circuit for lighting ( 1 floresent)controlled by 2 three way switches

one 20 amp bathroom circuit, 1 exhust fan controlled by 1 single pole switch
1 GFI recep.,1 vanity light(provided by homeowner) controlled by 1 single pole switch

1 hallway recp, 1 ceiling light controlled by 2 three way switches-(using circuit feeding laundry room light)

one 15 amp circuit for 4 reg smoke detectors, 1 smoke/co2 detector

I estimated with tax $3638

The contractor that got the job estimated $1500 less!!!!

Did I over bid?

For those who care the job is located in New Jersey
 
I don't think it matters much. If you bid enough to cover your costs and make a few bucks on top of that, well, that is your bid. If someone else can do it cheaper, that is his bid.

You cannot bid based on what other people are pricing their jobs at or you will go bankrupt.

Do you know for a fact that the other contractor's bid really was $1500 less?

It is also possible that the EC involved might have some special reason for taking the job at that price. Maybe he has a job next door and is going to do it after hours. maybe he has a lot of leftover material he just wants to use up. Maybe he is better at managing his material costs than you are. maybe he is a faster worker than you are. Maybe he made a mistake when he made the estimate. maybe he figured out some clever way to do it cheaper. who knows?

<added> A place I used to work at had a pricing plan for a short period of time called "market based pricing". basically, they bid jobs based on what they thought the competitor's bids were going to be. The salesmen doing the bidding had no way to know what the competitor's bids were going to be, so I have no clue how they came up with the numbers. It was not a very profitable year. I remember in a company meeting one time, the company president was asked about this practice. His response was "we may lose a little on each job, but we will make it up in volume". Dead silence in the room.
 
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Did you guys even bid the same job?

Did you bid it the way you "prefer" to wire vs. the other EC bidding code minimum/"what's on the print"?

There is a HUGE magin between those two trains.
 
Vinniem said:
I'd like your opinions on the job I just lost to another licensed contractor.
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Your bid looks reasonable to me. I wouldn't worry too much about the other guy being $1500 less, it's his cross to bear.
 
Having been the losing EC one too many times, I have decided it is in my best (financial) interests to be that other EC ...you know the one..bids are usually 1/2 what you submit, wins a lot of the jobs, etc.

You gotta level the playing field or else you are not even in the game....and it's all a game.
 
A separate 15 Amp circuit for the smoke detectors?

You cannot make money in residential wiring unless you get jobs. You get jobs by being the low bidder. Be very specific in your bid as to the quantites of each item you propose to install. Never use phrases like "Wire to code" or "per plan".

Once you get the job, now you must make the job profitable. This means you must be very aggressive in charging for extras. You must get a written authorization for every extra before you perform any extra work. Don't be bashful, my motto is "Charge Large". The General Contractor will complain but his complaints are music to my ears, if he didn't want this treatment, he should not have choosen the lowest bidder.

Residential contracting revolves solely around low pricing. Whoever delivers the lowest price is considered the "honest contractor" and everyone else is assumed to be a thief.

Buyers of residential wiring are notoriously stupid. They cannot be sold on quality or value, they only want a minimal price. Homeowners and General Contractors always whine about getting "nickle and dime'd to death" but we all know that they will always choose the lowest price, so you must be the lowest price.... At least initially. At the end of the job, you will have been paid the same or more than the other bidders.

Residential estimating is not pretty. Normal business considerations do not apply here. You have to play hard ball. If someone offered you $500 to take a baseball bat and beat a stranger to death would you do it? If your answer is no, you are not cut out for residential electrical contracting.
 
Romex Racer said:
If someone offered you $500 to take a baseball bat and beat a stranger to death would you do it? If your answer is no, you are not cut out for residential electrical contracting.
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It's rough out there!:cool:
 
Romex Racer said:
If someone offered you $500 to take a baseball bat and beat a stranger to death would you do it? If your answer is no, you are not cut out for residential electrical contracting.
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I have learned that I am not cut out for residential electrical contracting
 
Romex Racer said:
If someone offered you $500 to take a baseball bat and beat a stranger to death would you do it? If your answer is no, you are not cut out for residential electrical contracting.
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If I'll do it for $400, does that make me a better residential electrical contractor?
 
If someone offered you $500 to take a baseball bat and beat a stranger to death would you do it? If your answer is no, you are not cut out for residential electrical contracting.
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petersonra: You had me but then you lost me. The first part I was understanding but then you just got way, way out there.
 
The bat reference is from Romex Racer, not petersonra.

I think what RR is saying is that resi. is a brutal game not for the weak of heart.
 
emahler said:
If I'll do it for $400, does that make me a better residential electrical contractor?
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No, but it does mean that you'll get more work clubbing people.
 
Back to the original question as I don't have much too say about romex racers coments other than I love to bid against guys with that attitude. Customers are more savy than he gives them credit for and I prefer honesty over snake oil salesmanship as do most of the people I deal with.

Anyway, I don't think the price is out of line but I do think you could do it a little cheaper by not going over board running circuits. You should be able to have one 15 amp circuit for the lighting and smokes rather than the three you propose. Big savings? no but a little bit and there is just no need for them.
 
there is a HUGE difference between working for a residential GC and for the customer directly.

I said before, working for the customer is easy. that's about sales. apples to oranges.

working for residential GC's (and I use the term lightly, it should be man with little knowledge and huge cajones) really does take the attitude that RR has.

But residential GC's are a different breed.

But working for the customer...features vs. benefits all day long.

But going back to the OP, he did lose the job to someone who thinks the same as RR. Maybe customers aren't so savvy.
 
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emahler said:
If I'll do it for $400, does that make me a better residential electrical contractor?
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As long as you understand that you are going to have to get a signed CO for $1500. stating you are not to leave contact info as to who you were working for after you are awarded the job.
 
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