Diesel Motor Fuel Dispensing

[texie]

Since diesel fuel does not require classified wiring methods, are standard Chapter 3 wiring methods OK? Are all other parts of Art. 514 applicable?

For those that have done "truck stop" recently, what is the SOP for this?

 

[rbalex]

Excellent question; I'm surprised it hasn't been raised before.

You can draw your own conclusions from Section 514.1. My own opinion is wiring that is required to "respect" classification from Section 514.3, such as 514.4, 7, 8, 9 & 16 can essentially be ignored since there's nothing "classified." Other requirements, such as 514.11 & 13 must be followed since classification is not an issue.

 

[GoldDigger]

Some of the sections that you disregard (in particular 514.8 and 514.9) do not seem to be written to apply only to classified locations.
in .8, for example, all underground wiring is required to be in rigid or IMC, with certain exceptions) and then additional conditions are added when classified areas are involved.
Similarly, unless you argue that a diesel fuel dispenser is not a dispenser under the definition(?) (because of diesel's high flash point), I see the requirement for seals at the dispensing equipment, 514.9(A) to still be applicable. No boundary seals (B) are needed because there are not boundaries.

 

[rbalex]

As I said, you can draw your won conclusion; but, unless you're installing with respect to Section 514.3 classifications, you're needlessly wasting your client's money.

 

[GoldDigger]

As I said, you can draw your won conclusion; but, unless you're installing with respect to Section 514.3 classifications, you're needlessly wasting your client's money.

Or the inspector is, depending on his take on the situation.

I infer that your experience has been that AHJs agree with you?

 

[rbalex]

With regard to classified locations, I've never ultimately had an AHJ overrule me.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

With regard to classified locations, I've never ultimately had an AHJ overrule me.

Yes, but you know way more about this subject matter than most engineers, electricians, or AHJs.

 

[tom baker]

I would wire with RMC and FS boxes. Diesel will be spilled and splashed about, keep it out of the boxes and conduits.

 

[iceworm]

As I said, you can draw your won conclusion; but, unless you're installing with respect to Section 514.3 classifications, you're needlessly wasting your client's money.

I worked for a petroleum piping GC for 15 years - before and after getting my degree. We built a lot of service stations for the oil company majors. The dispensers/pumps were installed the same regardless of product. All were considered as having a product with a flashpoint <100F.

Could be because, generally the DF dispensers were in the CID1 envelope of the gasoine dispensers. Could be because the products were occasionally moved around. DF today, gas next year.

The only ones I've seen put in with ordinary area wiring were DF dispensers in an truck company yard, where they fueled their own trucks.

I don't have any experience with huge truck stops where there might be several DF lanes on one side, suitable for truck and trailer drive-through - and all the automotive gasoline on the other side. I don't know what the norm is for these.

ice

 

[rbalex]

...
Could be because, generally the DF dispensers were in the CID1 envelope of the gasoine dispensers. Could be because the products were occasionally moved around. DF today, gas next year.
...
ice

If they were in the Class I, Division 1 envelopes of the gasoline despenser, the installation was with respect to Section and Table 515.3. Using diesel at one dispenser doesn't erase the envelopes created by other sources.

Preparing for possible future reservicing and selecting other materials (except for possible Section 110.11 considerations) are design issues not NEC mandates.

I only answered the question asked in the OP and didn't attempt to speculate beyond it. I could write a treatise if I did. If necessary, I reserve that for AHJs.

 

[iceworm]

Wasn't my intention to touch a nerve - but apparently I did.

If they were in the Class I, Division 1 envelopes of the gasoline despenser, the installation was with respect to Section and Table 515.3.
Yes

Using diesel at one dispenser doesn't erase the envelopes created by other sources.
Yes

Preparing for possible future reservicing and selecting other materials (except for possible Section 110.11 considerations) are design issues not NEC mandates.
Absolutely. Although, sometimes not considered "needlessly wasting your client's money"

I only answered the question asked in the OP and didn't attempt to speculate beyond it.
The OP asked two questions. I answered the second.

... For those that have done "truck stop" recently, what is the SOP for this?

I could write a treatise if I did. If necessary, I reserve that for AHJs.

Yes you could - far better than I

ice

 

[rbalex]

Wasn't my intention to touch a nerve - but apparently I did.
...

ice

I apologize for overreacting.

 

[iceworm]

I apologize for overreacting.

Only mildly. So, only the mildest apology is accepted. I'm fine.

ice