Different oxide inhibitors

[ericsarratt]

I was looking at Ilsco's De-Ox recently for coating the ends of aluminum service entrance cables.

They said, oxide inhibitor is applied to the connector prior to inserting the wire conductor, providing an air-tight seal around the conductor, preventing oxides from forming.

I noticed they carried three different versions.

• NON-GRIT - suitable for aluminum or copper terminations, petroleum base--flash point 392 F
• ZINC - contains flecks of zinc providing improved pull-out strength and reduced operating temperatures for aluminum or copper terminations, non-petroleum base--flash point 500 F
• COPPER - contains flecks of copper providing improved pull-out strength and reduced operating temperatures for copper terminations, petroleum base--flash point 500 F

1) Why all the different versions?

2) When and where are you using these?

3) Do they actually make any real world difference in your experience?

4) Does anyone actually use these on copper connections?

 

[masterinbama]

I know that square recommends not using any at all. and if it used it must be non petroleum based

 

[electrofelon]

The oxide layer is very thin and brittle when the connection is tightened, it easily breaks thru that layer and the pressure points forms a gas tight seal preventing further oxidation. That said, my own personal unscientific but logical mental analysis is that corrosion can overtime "work its way into" the connection points, and oxide inhibitor will slow down / reduce / prevent corrosion over time and prolong the life of the connection. So, I typically don't use deox in dry locations but will in outside locations or wet basements.

 

[Dsg319]

I was looking at Ilsco's De-Ox recently for coating the ends of aluminum service entrance cables.

They said, oxide inhibitor is applied to the connector prior to inserting the wire conductor, providing an air-tight seal around the conductor, preventing oxides from forming.

I noticed they carried three different versions.

• NON-GRIT - suitable for aluminum or copper terminations, petroleum base--flash point 392 F
• ZINC - contains flecks of zinc providing improved pull-out strength and reduced operating temperatures for aluminum or copper terminations, non-petroleum base--flash point 500 F
• COPPER - contains flecks of copper providing improved pull-out strength and reduced operating temperatures for copper terminations, petroleum base--flash point 500 F

1) Why all the different versions?

2) When and where are you using these?

3) Do they actually make any real world difference in your experience?

4) Does anyone actually use these on copper connections?

Depends on who is looking over my shoulder. Lol. Sorry had to!

 

[Sberry]

I cant help but wonder how SQ D engineers as brilliant as they may be can think a dry arse thread that squeaks when its turning can be good. Even a drop of WD40 is an improvement over dry. We dab every bolt in a service with a touch of the no lox or similar. I spray the screws in the rest of the bars, we wipe it dry again and even spray the cover screws when they are virgins.
Stuff is never stuck or seized.

 

[jim dungar]

I cant help but wonder how SQ D engineers as brilliant as they may be can think a dry arse thread that squeaks when its turning can be good. Even a drop of WD40 is an improvement over dry. We dab every bolt in a service with a touch of the no lox or similar. I spray the screws in the rest of the bars, we wipe it dry again and even spray the cover screws when they are virgins.
Stuff is never stuck or seized.

Square D has been making aluminum body lugs for at least 7 decades (QO is from the 50's and I-Line from the 60's). I will continue to follow their internally tested (think legal department approved) and UL listed instructions, even though I have had some seize during installation.

 

[yesterlectric]

I cant help but wonder how SQ D engineers as brilliant as they may be can think a dry arse thread that squeaks when its turning can be good. Even a drop of WD40 is an improvement over dry. We dab every bolt in a service with a touch of the no lox or similar. I spray the screws in the rest of the bars, we wipe it dry again and even spray the cover screws when they are virgins.
Stuff is never stuck or seized.

I contacted Ilsco about this one time after a continuing education class I took had an instructor saying we should lubricate all lug screws. Ilsco said that lubricating a lug screw is opposite of the listing. The listing requires that they test on dry screws and publish torque for dry screws. You would be over-torquing if you do this. Good idea maybe for cover screws, bolts used to secure lugs, etc.

 

[LarryFine]

If I'm using anti-ox on outdoor aluminum lugs, I will usually remove the setscrew, add a dab on the tip, and screw it back in. They often have enough friction to obscure the true tightness when dry.

 

[jim dungar]

I was asked to find and overnight some MV lugs whose bodies cracked because the contractor's yearly maintenance was to check torque by tightening the nut instead of breaking it free and starting over. After 15 years of this preventative maintenance catastrophic failures occurred.

The lugs were not available for overnight shipping as they were normally a 3 week lead time and this happened over a Thanksgiving weekend.

The facility outage had to be unexpectedly extended.

 

[Sberry]

If you look hard enuf I am sure you can find a case,,, like I said that almost doesnt count. 15 years of over tighten isnt someone using a torque wrench or even paying attn and maybe should have some tools taken away. We figure that the rule would stop that? The test of the trade show I watched none of the 24 guys were too tight.

 

[jim dungar]

If you look hard enuf I am sure you can find a case,,, like I said that almost doesnt count. 15 years of over tighten isnt someone using a torque wrench or even paying attn and maybe should have some tools taken away. We figure that the rule would stop that? The test of the trade show I watched none of the 24 guys were too tight.

In my case, the contractor thought the lugs were not being overtightened. A torque wrench was being used to remove all the looseness that occurred over the past year. Evidently this is a commonly employed method to 'check torque', but it goes against manufacturers' instructions.

 

[Fred B]

I was asked to find and overnight some MV lugs whose bodies cracked because the contractor's yearly maintenance was to check torque by tightening the nut instead of breaking it free and starting over. After 15 years of this preventative maintenance catastrophic failures occurred.

The lugs were not available for overnight shipping as they were normally a 3 week lead time and this happened over a Thanksgiving weekend.

The facility outage ha D to be unexpectedly extended.

2023 NFPA 70B has the following regarding field testing of torque after original installation
"7.2.1.4.1
When using a calibrated torque wrench to confirm the torque of previously installed threaded hardware, the retightening value shall not exceed 90 percent of the manufacturer’s specified initial torque value."

Any lube applied to thread can and will impact actual torque values by several points (as pointed out regarding head bolts that can bottom out.). If Mfg. does not specify the addition of lube to threaded fittings and the original torque for Listing test was done as dry fitting, it should be done dry to avoid over torque.
I will if there is "squeaky tight" set screws, simply run them in and out a few times before setting in wire and torquing (works most times). If that doesn't clear it up will remove and lightly brush corrosion off before installing. (Usual cause of squeaky tight screws, even when "new".)

 

[ericsarratt]

I figure some of you might find this useful.

I contacted Ilsco and asked them about De-Ox and here is their reply:

The standard DE-OX non grit is the preferred oxide inhibitor for new installations. The Grit type with copper is for outdoor copper to copper installs. The zinc grit type a slight upgrade for the clear grease as the zinc particles slightly abrade the conductor during installation. There is a 4th type but is castor oil based to prevent damage to rubbers and leathers (PPE) typically only used in utility

 

[rambojoe]

I can wiggle critical conductors by the conductor near the term and determine whether it's worth redoing. Mainly because I'm that "alien" can hit 20lbft by experience.
Not that I would try on a customer's dime.. mind you.
If it shifts from a wiggle, redo it. As one of boss would say "it's not the space shuttle!"

 

[MattG0311]

2023 NFPA 70B has the following regarding field testing of torque after original installation
"7.2.1.4.1
When using a calibrated torque wrench to confirm the torque of previously installed threaded hardware, the retightening value shall not exceed 90 percent of the manufacturer’s specified initial torque value."

Any lube applied to thread can and will impact actual torque values by several points (as pointed out regarding head bolts that can bottom out.). If Mfg. does not specify the addition of lube to threaded fittings and the original torque for Listing test was done as dry fitting, it should be done dry to avoid over torque.
I will if there is "squeaky tight" set screws, simply run them in and out a few times before setting in wire and torquing (works most times). If that doesn't clear it up will remove and lightly brush corrosion off before installing. (Usual cause of squeaky tight screws, even when "new".)

Yes!!! About every guy I work with in my company wants to dump noalox all over lug threads before tightening. It drives me crazy.