Difficult Advice

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George Stolz

George Stolz

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Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
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Service Manager
I have a situation where a friend asked me to take a look at a receptacle that showed up on a HI report as being reversed polarity, and I agreed. When I took the receptacle out, sure enough, it was simply wired backwards and so I went about correcting it.

I noticed there was one EGC and four circuit conductors, and I didn't see a splice on the EGC. I stooped over and looked closer, and discovered that the cable exiting the box had the EGC snipped where it entered the box. :mad:

I quickly plug-checked the other receptacles in the room, which all read fine. I then whipped out my wiggy and tested for continuity between the receptacle's faceplate screws, and they were fine.

But then I tested between the receptacle faceplate screws and a nearby switch's faceplate screws, and discovered that the switch wasn't bonded. I checked around a bit more and discovered all the switches in the basement weren't bonded.

I imagine after the house was built the then-owner finished the basement without inspection, years ago. Now, the current owner has inherited the problem.

Since the wiring is all concealed, and the whole area is finished, what would you recommend? I have no idea when the wiring was completed, but it's pretty clear from the use of NM cable with ground that EGCs were required at the time of installation.

I am concerned with the safety of the basement, but am not sure what to recommend be done about it.
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GFI protect the circuit, not much you really can do at this point, unless you can some how get some slack out of the wire with the cut EGC, is it cut in every box?
 
stickboy1375 said:
...is it cut in every box?
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I don't know. I popped off the cover on the first switch I discovered, and shined a flashlight behind the switch. Both cables' EGCs were snipped off at the end of the sheathing.

I assume that the rest are the same way. :mad:
 
georgestolz said:
I quickly plug-checked the other receptacles in the room, which all read fine. I then whipped out my wiggy and tested for continuity between the receptacle's faceplate screws, and they were fine.



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How come the receptacles read fine with a cut EGC?
 
I suspect that the receptacles are first in every circuit, and the lighting comes after. Apparently, the original installer wanted the receptacles grounded, but didn't care about the lights.

Maybe he knew receptacle testers would point out the lack of grounding if it were absent, but there isn't a ready tester for knowing a light is grounded - who knows.

I have no idea what would lead someone to do it this way, but this is the way it appears to be. :mad:
 
celtic said:
Has your friend purchased the home yet?
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IIRC, the home was owned for many years by one party, then changed hands a year ago, and then the friend purchased it six months ago.

The area I was in is a little odd, I wish I took a picture of it. One room of the basement is finished with drywall/texture/paint; another room is plywood with liquid-nails residue on the surface, as though vinyl or something had been adhered to it at some point in time. The reversed polarity receptacle was in the liquid-nails room, installed at 48" AFF along with 2 or 3 others installed correctly-ish. :D

The liquid-nails room has exposed ceilings, and it's connected to the utility room containing the furnace and water heater - cables could be potentially fished to the liquid-nails room receptacles/switches, but the fully finished room is inaccessible, and used daily as a sort of office.

Looking at the exposed ceiling in the utility area, the house was framed with 2x12 floor joists, so fishing between lights (if the EGCs are snipped between fixtures) is not possible, IMO.

I have no desire to do any of the work, but I am enthusiastic about dispensing advice. :D
 
georgestolz said:
IIRC, the home was owned for many years by one party, then changed hands a year ago, and then the friend purchased it six months ago.
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This HI report is 6+ months old then?



georgestolz said:
I have no desire to do any work,
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Tell us something we don't already know

:D :smile: :grin:


(Notice the blatant misquote...LOL)
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celtic said:
This HI report is 6+ months old then?
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That's a good question, I don't know. I'm not sure if it was done recently, or if the report is from prior to purchasing the house.

I have to say, it was a pretty professional-looking report, IMO. I only saw a portion of it, though.

Where you going with this?

Edit to add: And yeah, that working stuff is way overrated. :D
 
Just use a nonmetallic face plate with nylon screws. That meets the intent of the execption to 404.9(B).
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Just use a nonmetallic face plate with nylon screws. That meets the intent of the execption to 404.9(B).
Don
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That may be OK for the switch, do the fixtures have an EGC?
 
Don, thanks - my gut instinct was to GFCI protect everything and be done with it, I didn't think it was good enough - by these sections, it appears to be. :cool:

(Not to take anything away from Stick, but Don had references. ;) )
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Just use a nonmetallic face plate with nylon screws. That meets the intent of the execption to 404.9(B).
Don
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I do not know if in this instance that this exception can be utilized. George can probably answer this question.

If there is a grounding means available, then the exception would not be able to be used. The exception as far as I understand it is for installations that are older and never had an equipment grounding conductor or means. It would seem from George's OP, that the EGC conductors have been snipped off, which in essence makes them (somewhat) available.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
It would seem from George's OP, that the EGC conductors have been snipped off, which in essence makes them (somewhat) available.
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Yeah, get the super-duper mini Cadweld kit, and splice on. ;)
 
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