Difficult panel replacement

Coppersmith

Senior Member
Location
Tampa, FL, USA
Why can't the new panel go where the existing one is?
Main reason: Because I think I'm more likely to get the inspector to agree to allow the existing sleeve if I don't disturb it by changing the box it's attached to. If he doesn't approve leaving the existing sleeve the job cost doubles and my client won't pay that much.

Secondary reason: I can cut the existing panel in half vertically to remove it, but I can't get the new one installed with pipe on both the left and right side that don't move. I'm assuming the sleeve is unmovable. The meter can is Ramset nailed to the block and is not going to move.

Yes, I agree it's ugly.
 
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Coppersmith

Senior Member
Location
Tampa, FL, USA
Using a metermain, you would have a real chance that some of your circuits would reach breakers without needing to be spliced and extended.
I like metermains. I use them all the time. But if I have to change the meter in addition to the panel, that will make the job too expensive and my client will not pay that much. Note that the meter is UG fed and that would require coordination with the POCO to shut off the power whereas I can just pull the meter to change the panel--no coordination required.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Main reason: Because I think I'm more likely to get the inspector to agree to allow the existing sleeve if I don't disturb it by changing the box it's attached to. If he doesn't approve leaving the existing sleeve the job cost doubles and my client won't pay that much.
I see it as removing and replacing one locknut. I'm willing to bet that he's as likely to approve leaving the sleeve with one panel as with two. Are you sure the sleeve is immovable with the locknut loosened?

Secondary reason: I can cut the existing panel in half vertically to remove it, but I can't get the new one installed with pipe on both the left and right side that don't move. I'm assuming the sleeve is unmovable. The meter can is Ramset nailed to the block and is not going to move.
You should be able to get a short nipple the right length in there. Two PVC male adapters have more than enough socket depth to center a short-cut piece of conduit after inserting it between the meter and the panel.

If you insert the nipple assembly as you place the new panel against the wall like a door, right side first over the sleeve, then left side, the male adapters should pivot into their respective knockouts easily.

If the short conduit is too-tight a fit in the male adapters, sand down the ends a little, get it so you can move the pipe with a pair of channellocks, and apply the glue last, spreading it left and right.

It's not like there will be any stress on the glued joints. To me, King Lazy, his is the cheapest, simplest, and best way to do it. No Myers hubs in the new panel top, more user-friendly, less ugly, etc.

1591237676407.png
 
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Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
I believe I would see about removing or cutting the Ramset nails on the meterbase. Once that’s done the meterbase should shift enough to the right to give enough room to remove the panel.
Then tapcon the meterbase back in
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
I spoke with the inspector and he asked me to send him a written proposal. As I was drawing the proposed design I started to wonder if there is really a code violation here. The sleeve with the incoming branch wiring is estimated to be only 9" long. Is that long enough to be an overheating risk? Can someone quote me the section number of the violation here? The overheating issue was the only one he mentioned. Then there is the fact that the cable is NM in outside conduit which is a violation I believe, but again it's only about 4" exposed so is it really a violation?

Below is what I would like to do if he approves leaving the sleeve in place.
It seems to me that the clearest code violation is not the bundling for overheating effect or any derating based on number of CCC. Instead it is that the runs of NM are not properly secured on entering the panel.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I looked again at the pic, but I don't know what the space between the meter and the new panel would be.

Maybe a close rigid nipple with locknuts can be put in like I described above.

I know your space is too small for this, but look what I found:

1591328996010.png


 

Coppersmith

Senior Member
Location
Tampa, FL, USA
Lay panel sideways under meter between this:
The Dougout by Hubbell
That's a cool product. I could have used that on the last restaurant I built out.

Unfortunately, panels cannot be installed sideways. The NEC requires the ON position on vertical breakers to be UP. In a sideways mounted panel half the breakers would be upside down. You can mount a panel sideways in Canada if you wish.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Those are nifty. Probably too big for this application tho.
Definitely, but I bet I could get a close nipple in there, if the new panel isn't wider.

I just had an idea: If the boxes are close enough, a 2" Chase nipple could be inserted from inside one enclosure, two locknuts spun on, inserted in the second enclosure, and the last locknut or bonding locknut spun on.

Or, two of whatever the PVC version of a Chase nipple is called, glued into a coupling cut to fit the gap. If they're too long and butt inside the coupling too soon, cut each of them down a bit.
 
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