Dimmable can lights

[ceb58]

Dose any one have a good source for dimmable fluorescent recessed can lights? I have found some that also have batt. back up but they are running $192.00 per can. I also have found dimmable cf lamps but the disclaimer states that they may only dim 70-80% and lamps may not dim uniformly.

 

[fireryan]

I know they make dimmable flourescent bulbs for can lights.

 

[ItsHot]

Juno, Halo..etc. I have not had good luck with the dimmable cfls yet!:-?

 

[Buck Parrish]

I also have found dimmable cf lamps but the disclaimer states that they may only dim 70-80% and lamps may not dim uniformly.

That sounds like they are selling a regular dimmer. Because thats how the bulbs act with a regular incondesent dimmer.

 

[ohm]

I install standard recessed cans with standard CFL's and switch off every one when I want less light. Buy the can & trim for $20, install a $1 lamp on a $1 sp switch. Wire 30 CFL's per switch and relamp in 4 or 5 years.

Yea I know the code makes you use the max. wattage on the can to determine how many CFL's go on a 20A breaker.

They need to reword that or the whole green thing heads for the toilet.

 

[mdshunk]

Dose any one have a good source for dimmable fluorescent recessed can lights? I have found some that also have batt. back up but they are running $192.00 per can. I also have found dimmable cf lamps but the disclaimer states that they may only dim 70-80% and lamps may not dim uniformly.

If you found one for 192 dollars, you did better than me. I couldn't find any for less than 800 dollars each. I needed 20-some for a camera store fit out. I ended getting the regular Progress P83 PL fixtures, taking the stock ballast off, and bolting on an Advance Mark 10 dimmable ballast (a direct, easy fit). That came to just over 125 bucks each, and I have a bunch of regular ballasts as spares for a rainy day on someone else's service call.

(You could also fit them with Advance Mark 7 ballasts if you need or want to run 0-10V dimmers or if you're on a "system").

 

[cowboyjwc]

I have a question, why do you need to dim fluorescent lights?

I'm not being a smart a**, I was just wondering about the application. The biggest complaint I hear when we require fluorescent lights here is that they're not bright enough.

 

[Nickarus]

I have a question, why do you need to dim fluorescent lights?

I'm not being a smart a**, I was just wondering about the application. The biggest complaint I hear when we require fluorescent lights here is that they're not bright enough.

Well to start with, fluorescent lamping is generally a good idea, if not a requirement based on energy codes and the like. Their high efficacy means, barring detrimental conditions, you're either getting more light for your money (energy), or else the same amount of light for less money. If you are seeing jobs where fluorescent lights are consistently not putting out enough light, someone is probably not designing or installing with the correct number/layout/type/quality of fixtures.

Dimming is either a requirement (energy codes again) or mandate by the owner or governing codes/AHJ's for various spaces, and this criteria generally is independent of whatever lamping is chosen for those spaces. They inevitably collide - the result is the need for dimming fluorescents.

 

[ceb58]

I have a question, why do you need to dim fluorescent lights?

I'm not being a smart a**, I was just wondering about the application. The biggest complaint I hear when we require fluorescent lights here is that they're not bright enough.

You do remember the build anything on the back of a big enough check?
This is something the customer wants, she is jumping on the green bandwagon with both feet. And try as I may she cannot see that she will probably never recoup her investment. So all I can do is install 17 of them along with the dimmers and drive my gas hog truck to the bank.

 

[George Stolz]

Juno, Halo..etc. I have not had good luck with the dimmable cfls yet!:-?

I'd agree to a point. The dimmable CFLs I've used didn't work extremely well, but a verbal disclaimer satisified the customer. It's a new technology, it's not going to dim as well as an incandescent counterpart. If the customer is full-on into the green notion, then some drawbacks won't turn them away from the conventional can with a dimmable CFL, IMO.

I'm talking about the ones that can be dimmed with a conventional incandescent dimmer. From my experience, half of it is the dimmer as well, don't scrimp on it if you go that route.

 

[cowboyjwc]

You do remember the build anything on the back of a big enough check?
This is something the customer wants, she is jumping on the green bandwagon with both feet. And try as I may she cannot see that she will probably never recoup her investment. So all I can do is install 17 of them along with the dimmers and drive my gas hog truck to the bank.

Ahhh yes, "Don't worry ma'am I'll make this work if its costs every penny you've got.":grin:

I was just wondering. I've put them in conference rooms and training rooms when you need to dim the lights to see the projection screen. I just think it would be a waste of money in a residence. The CFL's will save plenty, I would think dimming them is just overkill.

 

[ohm]

I've put them in conference rooms and training rooms when you need to dim the lights to see the projection screen. I just think it would be a waste of money in a residence. The CFL's will save plenty, I would think dimming them is just overkill.

As I said before, use the CFL's at full power for task lighting on separate switches. One for projector viewing, one for overall dimming i.e. dinners, and some stay on whenever the room is being used i.e. egress.

Dimmers cause noise in the sound system, computer systems, trip AFCI's, heat up and destroy CFL's. They also cost so much that the ROI will never be be recovered over the life of the equipment.

Also, the NEC needs to allow us to take credit for standard recessed cans being used with standard CFL's (220.12). A simple label in the can might work.

 

[cowboyjwc]

As I said before, use the CFL's at full power for task lighting on separate switches. One for projector viewing, one for overall dimming i.e. dinners, and some stay on whenever the room is being used i.e. egress.

Dimmers cause noise in the sound system, computer systems, trip AFCI's, heat up and destroy CFL's. They also cost so much that the ROI will never be be recovered over the life of the equipment.

Also, the NEC needs to allow us to take credit for standard recessed cans being used with standard CFL's (220.12). A simple label in the can might work.

I understood all that and I agree, that was the reason for my question I don't think you're saving any money.

While the NEC might allow it, depending on where you are, the California Energy Code states "A high efficancy luminaire is one that contains only high efficacy lamps and must not contain a conventional (medium) screw-based socket."

 

[ohm]

I understood all that and I agree, that was the reason for my question I don't think you're saving any money.

While the NEC might allow it, depending on where you are, the California Energy Code states "A high efficancy luminaire is one that contains only high efficacy lamps and must not contain a conventional (medium) screw-based socket."

So...in the name of efficiency they make you buy a high dollar fixture & lamp. If someone puts a bunch of incandescents on a circuit designed for CFL's the inrush current will trip the breaker like a bolted fault. A simple label like "60W incandescent or 13W CFL max." would do the trick. But, by it's own admission the NEC is only in the business of safety. Economy, beauty, or practicality does not apply.

Meanwhile, we're stuck in a recession using the most disputed NEC code I've ever seen.

 

[aline]

Ahhh yes, "Don't worry ma'am I'll make this work if its costs every penny you've got.":grin:

I was just wondering. I've put them in conference rooms and training rooms when you need to dim the lights to see the projection screen. I just think it would be a waste of money in a residence. The CFL's will save plenty, I would think dimming them is just overkill.

Some people want to be able to dim the lights in a residence for reasons other than saving energy.

 

[ohm]

Some people want to be able to dim the lights in a residence for reasons other than saving energy.

True, most women (except Mrs. Frankenstein) appreciate dimable lights over their bathroom vanity, dining room chandelier, TV room. They're also not the place for a CFL.

 

[aline]

True, most women (except Mrs. Frankenstein) appreciate dimable lights over their bathroom vanity, dining room chandelier, TV room. They're also not the place for a CFL.

Until it becomes mandated.http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/03/post_11.html

 

[ohm]

aline I put about a hundred CFL's in a meeting hall. Since the package mentioned saving $154 and the hall cost $154,000. I tried to talk the IBEW president into telling the members the hall would be paid for in ten years because of a lower utility bills. Are my numbers wrong?

 

[cowboyjwc]

Some people want to be able to dim the lights in a residence for reasons other than saving energy.

You have to remember that here in CA we have some different rules (someone asked me the other day if CA was in the same country as everyone else). You have two choices, with a couple of exceptions, in the Energy Code, install CFL fixtures or install dimmers. If either of these will surfice I don't see a reason to install both. Again last time I bought a can light it was $7 for a regular can and $40 for a CFL can. Add the cost of dimming ballasts and a dimmer, you may be saving energy, but you're certainly not saving any money.

 

[mdshunk]

The dimmable CFLs I've used didn't work extremely well, but a verbal disclaimer satisified the customer.

I don't want anyone to confuse dimmable CFL's with PL type fluorescents run off a dimming ballast. Two completely different technologies. Sorta the differency between a Chevette and a Cadillac. Dimmable CFL's presently suck, and PL lamps run off dimming ballasts work pretty good.