Direct Burial Depth

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KevinVost

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I had a contractor recently disagree with my call on an underground installation. The contractor was installing PVC schd 80 as a raceway for power and communications to a sign. The first inspection out was for the power conduits (buried 30" down), no problem. A few days later I get a second underground inspection for this site. I go out and the contractor has installed PVC schd 80 about 8"-12" from grade. I question what it's for and he says they already had filled the trench to that point and realized they forgot a raceway. I call him on table 300.5 (min 18") and he says he does not have to meet 18" because it is only for communications, no line power. I refer him to table 300.5, where it says 0-600v. He disagrees, I issue a Notice of Violation, he goes to my boss.

Now, I know it is not an electricution issue, since it is comm cables, but I would think the owner of the property would be ticked if they accidentlly dug up this conduit.

What do you think? Was I wrong?
 
T300.5 paints the world with a rather wide brush.

Unless there's something hidden back in Chapter 8 that modifies it somehow, I'd say you're right. Along the lines of T830.47, which is all I can find. Only something like that will provide him with some releif.
 
He was just trying to avoid the PITA of correcting the simple mistake that was harder to fix. The rules are also in place to protect the conduits not just weak links in the food chain. You're spot on. I wouldn't give it a second thought.
 
communication is covered by chapter 8. chapter 1 through 7 do not apply unless they are specifically reference in chapter 8 (90.3). Where does it say in chapter 8 that the burial depths apply ? (however well intentioned your thinking is, if it is not backed up by article 800 then it is absolutely the wrong call)
 
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T300.5 says raceways. An empty PVC IMO needs to comply with that table. Put low voltage in it and take a look at articles such as 725.3. Now what?
 
Might not be enforceable.

If it is for only communication circuits (CAT 5, phone, CATV, or the like), I think you may only to enforce that portion within a building, which is none. 90.3 > 800.110 (2008).

If the raceway will contain Class 2 or 3 signalling circuits, it would be subject to Chapters, 1-4, but only specific sections of chapter 3, not including 300.5. 90.3 > 725.3 (2008).

If optical fibers, similar to communications. 90.3 > 770.3 > 770.110. (2008).
 
Let me clear up the use of the cables in question, they are CAT 5e from a rack in the building to a sign on the curb that will have a message board that can be changed from inside the building.
 
Volta said:
Might not be enforceable.

If it is for only communication circuits (CAT 5, phone, CATV, or the like), I think you may only to enforce that portion within a building, which is none. 90.3 > 800.110 (2008).
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I agree.

It sounds like a Artilce 800 installation and 300.5 does not apply.

Now, I know it is not an electrocution issue, since it is comm cables, but I would think the owner of the property would be ticked if they accidentally dug up this conduit.
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I don't think the NEC is in the business of keeping owners happy. The owner could have issues specifications with the job requiring a certain depth of the conduits. :smile:
 
Can you talk them into a couple inches of crete (T300.5, column 3)? Might be a middle ground for everybody, though still questionable for enforcement.
 
725.3 Other Articles.
...Only those sections of Article 300 referenced in this article shall apply to Class 1, Class 2 and Class 3 Circuits.

Section 300.5 is not referenced, therefore it is not an issue.

Remember digging up Art 725, 800 type conductors/cables generally does not pose a physical danger to people.


If the danger of digging these conductors/cables posed a threat to the safety of people for other reasons, I think you may have an argument...
 
KevinVost said:
Let me clear up the use of the cables in question, they are CAT 5e from a rack in the building to a sign on the curb that will have a message board that can be changed from inside the building.
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I think you have just brought up another issue, however. - is the cable listed for a wet location ?
 
Cat 5e was not installed when I was there. Contractor just told me what they would be pulling in when the time came. Hence, I have no idea if it was listed for wet locations. If I go back, I will keep it in mind :D
 
Two things I see here, one the burial depths do not apply to article 800 installations and two, the type of cable (wet location) is not governed by the NEC. The contractor is correct on this one.
 
iwire said:
I agree important but I don't think he can require it.
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read 800.179 as I read it, any communication wire must be listed for its intended use (as this is also noted in article 90). 800.179 says all comm wires must be listed. therefore, the ahj has the authority to approve or disapprove of wire as to its suitability for the intended use ?
 
nakulak said:
read 800.179 as I read it, any communication wire must be listed for its intended use (as this is also noted in article 90). 800.179 says all comm wires must be listed. therefore, the ahj has the authority to approve or disapprove of wire as to its suitability for the intended use ?
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Do any of those cable listed in 800.179 say that they're required to be listed for wet locations?
 
nakulak said:
communication is covered by chapter 8. chapter 1 through 7 do not apply unless they are specifically reference in chapter 8 (90.3). Where does it say in chapter 8 that the burial depths apply ? (however well intentioned your thinking is, if it is not backed up by article 800 then it is absolutely the wrong call)
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Great job nakulak. I agree with you that chp1-7 do not generally apply to chpt 8.

He cannot force them to bury it deeper.
 
infinity said:
Do any of those cable listed in 800.179 say that they're required to be listed for wet locations?
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90.4 - ahj is responsible for deciding on approval of equipment and materials

110 - "approval" - acceptable to the ahj

110.3 A - in judging equipment . . . (1) suitability for . . .use
B - listed . . . shall be installed in accordance with the listing

800.179 - comm wires and cables . . . shall be listed

I know I could be wrong about the listing requirement, but I believe that the above requires the cable to be listed for its intended use - ie wet location ?
 
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