disco for detached garage

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george t. everett

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I am running a 60 amp 3-wire feeder to a detached garage. The feeder will terminate in a 12 circuit panel. I will. have 2-1pole 15 , 2-1pole 20 & 1-2pole 20 circuit breakers. Do I need a main disconnect or does the six disconnect rule apply?
 
Re: disco for detached garage

six applies,dont forget to run a ground and you need grd rod(maybe 2).Some AHJ will argue that if that panel can support more breakers that you need a main.I think for the few dollars more i would back feed a 60 for main
 
Re: disco for detached garage

You might not necessarily need to run a ground with the feeder, but I would.
I also wouldn't install anything to a detached garage under 100amps with a main, but that has to do with personal preferance.
The 6 rule applies, but as Jim states, you might check with local ammendments.
There are quite a few threads on this subject. For more info, do a search on this site.
 
Re: disco for detached garage

Would suggest giving customer both prices 60 and 100.While right now they may fully intend on no major needs,down the road a few years or a new buyer might have ideas about welders and AC .The labor would be almost nothing.
Or at a min. run large enough conduit so it could be upgraded.
 
Re: disco for detached garage

Around here we find that main breaker panels are cheaper than main lug panels. but if the price is not the much difference I would use the main breaker panel as with 12 spaces you know that somewhere down the line they will install more circuits. also the only time the NEC allows for only a 3 wire feed 2 hots and a neutral is when there is no metallic paths between the two buildings this includes TV and phone wire, gas pipe and water pipe. other wise a 4 wire feeder has to be run. you need a ground rod in ether installation.
 
Re: disco for detached garage

I always install a main in every "sub" panel. It is an easy sell and it is safer for the DIY'er.

Edit: In res. applications only.

How many have a lock out means in the main panel for the sub?

Mike P.

[ February 16, 2004, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: jxofaltrds ]
 
Re: disco for detached garage

I do not think that the 6 disconnect rule would apply, If the detach garage is at a single family dwelling , then wouldn't 225.39 (c) apply. We are talking about Feeders and not branch circuits aren't we.

Donnie
 
Re: disco for detached garage

Is there anything in NEC to prevent a ML panel in this garage with say 20 spaces if only 6 breakers are in it.My x boss said we couldn't do it but couldn't cite any code.
 
Re: disco for detached garage

Jim IMO as long as there are 6 or less breakers in at the time of inspection it meets the code.

As much as some one can add breakers to this 20 circuit panel the same person could always tap a second panel onto a 6 circuit panel.

Our trade is full of what ifs, luckily inspectors can only inspect what is. :D
 
Re: disco for detached garage

Bob thanks,i was pretty sure i was right.He always had me put in a main.We both know someone will likely add more but thats not our problem and if he got a permit would fail.All kinda stuff happens after the final.If at least once every 10 years they had to be reinspected that kinda thing would stop
 
Re: disco for detached garage

According to Art. 225.31 , Disconnecting means. Means shall be provided for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors that supply or pass through the building or structure.

Are you all trying to say that because a panel has 6 breakers or less it meets these requirements, How would any of these 6 breakers disconnect the Feeder supplying the panel. Especially if the conductors are landed on lugs only and not a Main.
I say that it must have a Main to be code compliant.

Donnie
 
Re: disco for detached garage

Originally posted by jimwalker:
Is there anything in NEC to prevent a ML panel in this garage with say 20 spaces if only 6 breakers are in it.My x boss said we couldn't do it but couldn't cite any code.
Click to expand...
Jim, I agree with Bob, that it is not a violation. There are some exterior panels that have provisions for up to 12 circuits, but if you read the listing it says 2-pole breakers only. I cite this on a regular basis when I see single breakers installed.
 
Re: disco for detached garage

Well they will disconnect the supply of the ungrounded conductors and the only thing going thru will still be there.Only difference is the bus bar is still live.And it is enclosed and not going thru anything.Either way we go there is still voltage in the panel.
 
Re: disco for detached garage

Ryan, i will need to check that next time i see one.So if i was to use lets say one 2 pole 20 amp breaker and fed 2 20 amp 120 volt circuits and left the rest empty would it pass ?
And would 20 circuit panel with 2singles poles pass ?
We all can see what will take place after inspection

[ February 16, 2004, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: disco for detached garage

Jim, next time you see a panel like this one...
ry1.jpg


Take a minute and read the information on the panel cover.
 
Re: disco for detached garage

Originally posted by donnie:
According to Art. 225.31 , Disconnecting means. Means shall be provided for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors that supply or pass through the building or structure.

Are you all trying to say that because a panel has 6 breakers or less it meets these requirements, How would any of these 6 breakers disconnect the Feeder supplying the panel. Especially if the conductors are landed on lugs only and not a Main.
I say that it must have a Main to be code compliant.

Donnie
Click to expand...
Good morning Donnie, I hear what your saying but the requirement does not force the use of a main breaker, up to six breakers are allowed.

225.33 Maximum Number of Disconnects.
(A) General. The disconnecting means for each supply permitted by 225.30 shall consist of not more than six switches or six circuit breakers mounted in a single enclosure, in a group of separate enclosures, or in or on a switchboard. There shall be no more than six disconnects per supply grouped in any one location.
Click to expand...
I made the part relevant to this thread bold.

I personally would go with a main, as has been said many times the code is minimum.

Also main CB panels can be as cheap as MLO panels so why not put a main in? :)
 
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