Disconnect outside dwelling terrible idea!

[drillstop]

I watched the video stating that NEC now requires disconnect outside a dwelling, essentially to make it safer for fire fighters. Fire fighters can cut seal and remove the meter is probably 30 seconds. A burglar may want to cut the power to disable the security system, which would likely be Wi-Fi with no battery backup. But the burglar may be afraid of electricity and not want to mess with the meter. Angry kids may find humori n turning off the power., and refrigerated items spoil. I would not want a disconnecting means outside my house, and I do not think anyone else should desire such.

 

[tom baker]

The meter belongs to the POCO. Tampering with the meter could be federal offense. .it’s been mentioned here.
You can submit a PI for the 2026 NEC to delete this requirement, the PI can be done in a few months. We have a topic here and can review your PI

 

[tthh]

I put padlocks on the two outside panels at my daughter's house. Just really felt like they needed to be protected from criminals or mischief makers. The fire fighters have bolt cutters.

 

[Buck Parrish]

I put padlocks on the two outside panels at my daughter's house. Just really felt like they needed to be protected from criminals or mischief makers. The fire fighters have bolt cutters.

They're not the only ones.

 

[Ken_S]

There have been main disconnects and in some parts of the country entire panels installed outside the home for decades.

 

[roger]

Not that I think a FD disconnect outside is necessary but, I have done many outside main service panels not to mention Meter/Mains

 

[Dsg319]

Meter mains make life a world of difference for generator installs down the road.

 

[infinity]

I've opined here before that it's a terrible idea and unnecessary. NJ is going to adopt the 2020 NEC later this year and I'm guessing that they will remove that requirement. I need to replace the service in my own home sometime soon and if they don't remove it I'll immediately apply for a permit to get in under the 6 month grace period for using the 2017 NEC.

 

[Fred B]

The idea that exterior disconnects are unnecessary (and dangerous?) is fine in larger metropolitan areas but here in rural areas, emergency response crews such as fire departments are all volunteer and nearly 100% of them would not have personnel equipped or qualified to safely remove a meter, especially under load. Thus was the push for that addition to the code. I have seen buildings burn to ground as a result, the FD unable to disconnect power and POCO response time was too long to save the building.

 

[infinity]

The idea that exterior disconnects are unnecessary (and dangerous?) is fine in larger metropolitan areas but here in rural areas, emergency response crews such as fire departments are all volunteer and nearly 100% of them would not have personnel equipped or qualified to safely remove a meter, especially under load. Thus was the push for that addition to the code. I have seen buildings burn to ground as a result, the FD unable to disconnect power and POCO response time was too long to save the building.

It should be optional. If I don't want one because some nefarious actor can kill all of the power to my house then that's my choice and the local FD can let it burn. There are many urban areas in this state where there will be a problem with which leads me to believe that NJ will remove it from the code.

 

[gadfly56]

They're not the only ones.

But it reduces the opportunity for spontaneous mischief, such as the couple or three 15-16 year-olds strolling through the neighborhood looking to amuse themselves. If someone is running around with bolt cutters, that probably raises the bar above simple mischief to criminal mischief at a minimum, depending on what else they are attempting at the time.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I watched the video stating that NEC now requires disconnect outside a dwelling, essentially to make it safer for fire fighters. Fire fighters can cut seal and remove the meter is probably 30 seconds. A burglar may want to cut the power to disable the security system, which would likely be Wi-Fi with no battery backup. But the burglar may be afraid of electricity and not want to mess with the meter. Angry kids may find humori n turning off the power., and refrigerated items spoil. I would not want a disconnecting means outside my house, and I do not think anyone else should desire such.

That is a very dangerous procedure and there are a number of injuries to trained electrical workers from doing that every year. Most often because of physical part failure as the meter being removed resulting in an arc flash incident with no real OCPD on the line side of the service conductors.

Nothing in the code rule prohibits the required disconnect from being locked in the on position.

And since it is so easy to pull the meter to cut the power, why can't the burglar do the same thing.

 

[tthh]

That is a very dangerous procedure and there are a number of injuries to trained electrical workers from doing that every year. Most often because of physical part failure as the meter being removed resulting in an arc flash incident with no real OCPD on the line side of the service conductors.

Nothing in the code rule prohibits the required disconnect from being locked in the on position.

And since it is so easy to pull the meter to cut the power, why can't the burglar do the same thing.

The criminal or mischief maker can do this....but, it is the opportunist criminal or mischief maker that is deterred when the car door they just tried is locked and they move on to another car. A criminal that wants in and has planned or is experienced is another matter, but I think this type is less likely than the opportunist.

 

[winnie]

I have mixed feelings on this topic. I am planning on getting the external disconnect installed when my service gets upgraded, but I see the potential risk.

Rather than hypotheticals about thieves flipping the outside disconnect do we have data from places where outside disconnects are common?

A disconnect behind a frangible lock would be sufficient to stop mischief makers.

A disconnect behind a frangible lock with an alarm sensor on the cover probably answers the risk of a burglar trying to cut power first. Their attempt to disable the alarm would set it off. But now we are talking escalating complexity and diminishing returns.

Jon

 

[Buck Parrish]

I never heard of any body having any problems with someone turning off the power for mischief or to do real harm. I guess it does happen because I've seen it on TV.
I have had disconnects on my properties for many years. I like them.

 

[wwhitney]

Rather than hypotheticals about thieves flipping the outside disconnect do we have data from places where outside disconnects are common?

Yes, it's a non-issue. Common here in CA.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[electrofelon]

Yes, it's a non-issue. Common here in CA.

Cheers, Wayne

As much as I disagree with the exterior disconnect requirement, this whole theory of kids and thieves flipping off an exterior breaker is laughable and kinda bizarre really.

 

[electrofelon]

That is a very dangerous procedure and there are a number of injuries to trained electrical workers from doing that every year. Most often because of physical part failure as the meter being removed resulting in an arc flash incident with no real OCPD on the line side of the service conductors.

Don, I have to disagree with you on most of that. Would it really be that hard for fire depts to keep a face shield and gloves in the truck and get 20 minutes of training on this? You think the POCO meter people are highly trained with years of experience? Doesnt the very slight risk of pulling a meter pale in comparison to entering a burning building, driving an emergency vehicle fast thru traffic, potentially working at night in wet environments with poor visibility, etc?? And arc flash on a resi 120/240 service? Really?

 

[gene6]

A burglar may want to cut the power to disable the security system, which would likely be Wi-Fi with no battery backup.

FYI most all wifi security systems are easily hackable / disabled / fooled.

Angry kids may find humori n turning off the power.,

As soon as you own residential property (a soft target) and have 'angry kids' you have Asymmetric warfare. You probably also have glass windows that rocks can go thru and a outside water they can shut off.
lesson #1 from the stans and racks don't be a () to the locals when your a soft target, like they know where you live and you have no idea who they are and they have nothing to loose.

 

[Phil Timmons]

In practice the likely long-term (mis) use will become Copper Theft. At least in some areas. Sometimes, the live electricity is all that is really protecting the wire. With the disconnect, it makes everything down range theft-able. But I have had sites hit where the wires were cut live. Not like a crack or meth-head is too worried about following LOTO. ;P